S5E4: When Passion Burns Out - Julie Bee’s Roadmap to Recovery and Success

You've got to just have that drive to go after it because there's nobody waking you up in the morning telling you to go to work or telling you what to do when you get there. So you've got to have that relentlessness to keep moving forward and just keep pursuing the goal. - Julie Bee

Want to find the solution to enhanced business resilience and an expanded professional network? I'll be sharing the secrets to achieving that result. Let's dive in!

In this episode, you will learn about:

• Mastering the art of overcoming burnout for entrepreneurs.
• Unleashing the power of writing and publishing a business book.
• Cultivating the successful traits of entrepreneurship.
• Constructing a solid foundation of resilience in business.
• Elevating your networking game as a business owner.

My special guest is Julie Bee.

Julie Bee is a business strategist, burnout expert, assessment nerd, and author. She’s been dubbed the “small business fixer" by her clients and peers. Her book, Burned: How Business Owners Can Overcome Burnout and FUEL Success is changing how we battle, and then embrace, burnout. 

With over 15 years in the entrepreneurial field, Julie has solidified her reputation as a dynamic consultant, a riveting speaker, and a leader who sheds light on the darker side of business ownership. She has a knack for transforming businesses from the ground up. Whether it's reshaping workplace cultures or empowering leaders, her influence proves game-changing for those who collaborate with her. Having been celebrated by AP News, Fast Company, and Forbes, her work is in high demand in the industry.

Transcript:

00:00:03 - Speaker A
Welcome to your next stop podcast. Welcome back to your next stop. This is Juliet Hahn. I say it every single time, but I'm so excited to bring you a story of someone that has followed a passion and turned it into a business and author a book. So many things that you've done. Welcome Julie B. To your next stop. How are you?

00:00:25 - Speaker B
I'm great. Thanks for having me. Juliet.

00:00:27 - Speaker A
Yes. I'm excited about this because I know we connected, we talked for a little bit. Like I usually do. A lot of my, you know, listeners always love where I find guests and it usually, I think we found each other on LinkedIn. I don't. Or you're. No, or someone contacted me. I, you know, it was one of those things that we intertwined and then spoke and then I said, you know what, I love your story. I think we literally talked for like five minutes and then I stopped you and I said, wait, no, I don't want you telling me anymore because I want learn more so people can find you on Instagram. And it's the Julie Bbee and that's underscore after that. And then also on LinkedIn. You are the author of. It's called burnt. Burned. It's burned, right?

00:01:14 - Speaker B
Burned. Yep.

00:01:15 - Speaker A
Yeah, I have. I had t on the end and I canceled, crossed it out. So, Adi, please take that up. The author of Burned and that is how business owners can overcome burnout and fuel success. And you are dubbed the small business fixer, which is. I can't wait to get into this. I know that you've been an entrepreneur for 15 years, so I kind of have a feeling that you finding your coaching business is because of some of the stuff that you went through.

00:01:41 - Speaker B
So if you've seen some stuff.

00:01:43 - Speaker A
Yeah, yeah, I think so. If you can kind of just take us a little bit through the beginning of your life, a little bit of, kind of some of the. Where you grew up and then we don't have to stay in there long, but I always am fascinated where people grew up and then kind of where they pivoted in life and where it has taken them. So I always love to kind of dive in and learn a little bit about that so we can share that.

00:02:06 - Speaker B
Absolutely. So I, born and raised in Clarksburg, West Virginia, small town in West Virginia, went to live the small town life for my 1st 18 years, went to the WVU, West Virginia University, got an undergrad and a grad degree in accounting of all things. And I worked full time in corporate America for about a year and very quickly learned that it wasn't for me. So I, from there I went. That was one, that was a big pivot of, oh, I just spent all this time getting these two degrees and now what am I going to do? Well, I went and worked for smaller businesses for a few years after that. And so almost my entire career has been spent either working for or running a small business, which is very, I think it's a unique thing about me. And in 2008, I was working for a small business, running their accounting, their office, their marketing, kind of doing all of it, teaching myself a lot of digital marketing stuff at the time. Lost my job. They were a residential home builder. So in the housing crash of zero eight, lost my job there. And job prospects were not great, even for accountants. It turns out my mom was wrong. Even if you have an accounting degree does not mean you're always going to have a job. So I decided to. At that time, I had really started playing around with social media. And back in zero eight, this was before even Facebook was available publicly, it was still just at college campuses. So I started a digital marketing agency, niched down a few years later into specifically social media, and ran that for 15 years. Ran my own business for 15 years, exited that last year. So that was a big pivot. And the exit was for a lot of reasons, burnout was one of them. I was just tired of a lot of things that was going on in the business. And through trying to figure out how to sell my company, I thought I had a sellable asset. Turns out that I didn't have a sellable asset because my team was not going to stay and I didn't want to do the typical sell your business and then work two years for a new, for a new employer. So figured out how to exit it, land on my feet. And in that time, between Covid and last year, I managed to do things like write a book and get a book deal, launch a coaching business. And that's what I do today. I do primarily two things. I run a coaching company where I work one to one, or sometimes do group coaching with other business owners. Usually they're b, two b business owners or in service businesses because we tend to burn out a little bit more, I think, and I focus that really it's profit process or personnel. Those are usually the three things from a business perspective that cause business owners to struggle or get stuck. So really it's not that I only help people who are in burnout actively. I think I help more people prevent burnout, quite frankly, than actually burnout and then fix that. So, yeah, I coach and I have my book, and that's what I'm doing these days. So that's how I got there.

00:05:14 - Speaker A
I love that. And so we'll get into some of the second parts, but some of the stuff that always fascinates me is what you and your household, what did you see? What were your parents doing? Were they entrepreneurs? Were they working in corporate America? Did they, you know, since you were in a small town, what did that look like as you as a child?

00:05:35 - Speaker B
It's funny, my mom actually was an entrepreneur, and I didn't know that until recently. She. At the time, there was a time in her life where she sold Avon, and she said she had like, 400 clients, which I can't even fathom that in the town that I grew up in, which. But, I mean, if my mom says it's so so, but other, I mean, I really came from a blue collar family. My brother and sister and I were the first generation of people from my family to go to college. And my grandparents, my grandparents. My grandfather worked in a factory, my dad worked in a factory. He actually lost his job when I was really little. And he, for the first ten years of my life, I only saw my dad on the weekend because he would travel to a place in Pennsylvania to work. But then all the factory jobs dried up, and then he ultimately got a job as a school janitor. So I. My parents, I went through a transition with him where we had, like, we were not wealthy, but, like, you know, typical middle class to my dad losing his job and my mom having to go back to work without a college degree. So when I was a teenager, my mom was a kindergarten aide and my dad was a school janitor. So it was very interesting to kind of go through that transition. My grandfather, my dad's dad was actually an entrepreneur. He owned gas stations and things, but I was that. He retired before I was born from that, so I didn't really get to see any of that. But there's an entrepreneurial streak on both sides of my family.

00:07:05 - Speaker A
Well, but I mean, the thing that I think is interesting, because there, it's the whole, like, nurture versus nature. And I am always fascinated with, like, how the brain works and all of that, because I think some people are just built to be entrepreneurs now. Sometimes they don't. They don't do it. It's not their path, but they just are built because it takes a special person to be an entrepreneur. I mean, you have to have some thick skin. You have to know how to pivot you have to know how to, like, kind of ride the highs and the lows because, you know, we talk about this, obviously, often on this podcast, but the highs are so high, and the lows can be so low, and it can happen within the same day, literally can happen in the same day. And I think the thing that's important is people that are, you know, thinking, wait, do I want to be an entrepreneur? Do I not want to? Is really thinking about and doing a lot of that kind of self awareness check to see. Okay, let's take us through what a typical entrepreneur's day or week or something looks like, and getting that conversation with someone and saying, okay, this is something especially for college students. You know, think the, the atmosphere for entrepreneurs has changed so much. Like, when I was growing up, that wasn't, you didn't learn about that in school, right? Like, someone that was an entrepreneur, it was usually, it was, they didn't fit the mold. They didn't fit corporate America. They did things their own way. They were kind of the black sheep. They, you know, kind of beat to their own drum, which I always resonated with. I always thought that was, like, so cool, even though I did go into corporate America, because that is just, I thought that was the path I should go and then became, you know, an entrepreneur. And now actually, I'm working for a company again because of my entrepreneur, you know, my entrepreneur kind of feel. Then someone, you know, kind of snagged me up and said, hey, I want you to now do this in our company. But it is a something that I think people are born with. It's a brain type. And again, not everyone goes into it. So even though you didn't see your grandfather run the gas stations, your dad's dad saw that. And so one of the things that I think is really fascinating is that your dad maybe was like, I don't want to go into the entrepreneurial life because I saw what my dad went through.

00:09:10 - Speaker B
Right.

00:09:10 - Speaker A
The ups and downs. And so you kind of have that with kids that have parents that are entrepreneurs. They always, they either love it or they're like, I am not doing it because I don't want that.

00:09:21 - Speaker B
Yeah, it's. I do vaguely remember my dad talking about working at the gas stations, and, you know, he didn't talk about, he doesn't talk about it a lot, but I feel like there was just something there wherever, um, you know, he wanted to. And back then, I mean, you, my parents are significantly, I was a oopsie baby. So they're, they're they're all both almost 80. And so, you know, they were graduating from high school in 1960, 219 63. So back then you graduated from high school, you usually had some type of skill. Like my mom took typing classes and so she was able to go out and become a secretary. And my dad, I mean you went and you worked in the factories. There were all kinds of factories in my hometown, but then they, you know, over time in the eighties, they closed up and then that's how that all played out. So, you know, I think it's, I reflect on it differently than even my brother and sister do because they are, my brother is twelve years older than me and my sister's eight. So they lived a different experience with mom and dad than I did. And it's very interesting to see my sister's very corporate America, has worked in corporate America whole, whole life, is going to retire when she's, you know, 55 or 60 and be done with it. My brother is an entrepreneur through and through. So it's been very interesting to see how these family genes play out. I do think there is an element of, you know, sometimes we're just born with those genes. And there's also though, what I tell a lot of business owners, if they ask me if they should do become people who are wondering if they should become business owners, I ask them, you've got to have the three r's, you've got to be resourceful, resilient and relentless. Those three things. And the relentlessness, that's like, you got to have the drive to keep going. You've got to just have that drive to go after it because there is nothing, there's nobody waking you up in the morning telling you to go to work or telling you even what to do when you get there. So you've got to have that relentlessness to keep moving forward and just keep pursuing the goal.

00:11:13 - Speaker A
Yeah. And also, I think you also have to have a love for what you do, right. Because if you don't have that love, that all those r's are going to, they're going to dry up if you're all sudden like, you know what, I actually don't really like what I'm doing. It's almost like it's so hard to kind of do that. That's why, you know, when I started this podcast, it was really in a time in my life that I was, I was going back into the not on purpose, but my kids were older and I was like, I just don't want to play golf and drink wine like or play tennis. It wasn't golf, but, like, what some of the ladies in my town were doing. I was like, I just don't want to do that. Like, I want to do more. I want, I want to give back. I want to do these things. So I started exploring things, and that's when I was like, you know, let me just try a podcast, see what it does. You know, it's a creative outlet that I didn't even realize I needed, but one of my, one of, and it's a guest that I always bring up. And it was her story that really fascinated me, and it was this really cool moment because I connected dots for her. But she was in corporate America. She's like, I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. And I said, well, why? You know, that's. I ask a lot of questions.

00:12:18 - Speaker B
Why?

00:12:19 - Speaker A
And she said, I don't know. And I said, did you read it in a book? Did you watch it in a tele, like, did you see it on, like, a, in a movie? And you were like, that's cool. I want to do that. Was it a neighbor, you know, your parents? She said, no, my dad was a professor, and, you know, my mom was a stay at home mom. She goes, no, I don't really know. And then all of a sudden, probably like 15 minutes in of us talking about she, she created. Her business was almost like rent the Runway for pregnant women. She wasn't even really pregnant at the time. And so it was just like this really interesting. I was, like, very curious of how she got to where she was because she had a really great job in corporate America, but she's like, I just always wanted that. And I said to her, you know, okay, well, that's so interesting. I've actually, usually someone has some sort of connection, or it's like they just write, family was entrepreneurs. And as I said, you either go into it or you don't, or, you know, you have some experience with it. But she could not think of any experience. All of a sudden, at 15 minutes in, she went, oh, my gosh. She goes, you know what? My dad owned a store, but I was really young. It was like when I was five. And when I tell you, this woman lit up. She started talking. She's like, you know, oh, my gosh. This is all coming back to me. My neighbor and him owned this store, and we would go and we would sit and we would have, like, dinners, and my mom and dad would dance, and it was like this really fun time. It was really only short time. And I don't know if that has anything to do with it. And I said to her, was there a difference between the entrepreneur dad walking through the door versus the professor daddy? She said, oh, my gosh. I said, you've been chasing the feeling that you got from your dad when you were little. She's like, he was so happy doing that. She goes, he wasn't unhappy as a professor. He just, it wasn't, it wasn't his passion.

00:14:06 - Speaker B
There's, there's a fulfillment that comes with being an entrepreneur. And I think that the fulfillment comes from a variety of things. For some people is having flexibility. Like my, my dad had surgery last week, and I was able to take a few days off during this crazy time. Right. You know, during this book launch time, but take a few days off to be there for him and to help take care of them. There's, and that was fulfilling. One of the, I know one of the reasons that I started down this path was I, it's the community element and the, how much entrepreneurs actually pour into their local communities. You know, you go to any, any baseball or softball or t ball field, and you're going to see a banner of a local business that's up there. You're, you know, when, when your kids events at schools need sponsored or when there's, you know, when there's something going on in the community, when there's a, you know, a flood that goes through the community, it's a lot of the times, it's the small businesses in that community that step up, donate time, donate money, donate resources to helping the local community. And I think that is what is my driving factor behind why I'm a business owner. Because growing up in a small town in West Virginia, I saw how important community is, everything there. I mean, that's, you know, your whole family lives in one community, usually cousins, second cousins, third cousins. But the people who everybody also knew, they were the local insurance company or the local, the people who ran the law firm. And all of those people were entrepreneurs, and they were the ones that were doing things like sponsoring my basketball team and sponsoring my event at school. So I think that the part for me is how important small businesses are to making sure we have thriving local communities and local economies through things like that, as well as employing people locally as well. That's, those are, like, why I am so driven to help businesses succeed, to make sure they don't burn out, you know, and to be able to stay around and become a fixture in their local communities.

00:16:26 - Speaker A
I love that. And you could see, like, just the smile that you got, because it is. You're right. It's like when you live in a small town, they're like the little, you know, they're almost like the local celebrities, right? Everyone knows them. It's like a friendly, and it's like this good. I call it the good feels. Like, when you get the good feels is, you know, wait, I love that I need to follow that. So that's like something that, you know, when I used to do some coaching, it was some of the stuff that I've talked about, like, you have to figure out what those good feels are, and you need to follow those. And sometimes it might not turn into a business, but you need to follow those good feels to kind of be fulfilled in life. And maybe it's a hobby, maybe it leads to what you're meant to do, but following, it's almost like the breadcrumbs you kind of follow. And it's the good feels like, hey. And not doing it blindly and like. And not having. And I don't want to say that there's a purpose, but I think sometimes people don't always follow the good feels because they're nervous in the good feels. Right? They're like, oh, I don't. I don't know something bad's going to happen or I don't know what to do in this. But I'm someone, you know, I am someone that beats my own drum. I always do that and I live, you know, I don't always have the good feels, but when something feels good, I'm like, I need to explain, explore that a little bit more because there's something there. So if you can take us down a little bit, you know, as you started this business, obviously you started your business that you sold, that you were young. Can you take us through maybe, like three key points that you can share with the listeners that you really took from it that you learned? And then I would love to get into the coaching and your book and how that all came about.

00:17:53 - Speaker B
Yeah. So my first business, one of the most. I'm just. Let me think here, one of the most pivotal points was hiring my first employee, which led to hiring my second employee, which brings about a lot of freedom, but also a lot of different types of work. Different kinds of work, and sometimes challenges and pressure there. So that was a pivotal point because I was able to really learn how to be a leader as a small business owner, and I didn't do it perfectly. Leadership is one of those things I think is one of the most humbling things you can go through, especially when you go through it as a small business owner. But I think that I learned how to be a leader. I learned how to, to make decisions, make hard decisions, coach people. That's really, I think one of the first places I learned how to really sit and listen and not, you know, not dictate what the path was, but actually ask the question, what do you think we should do? And really provide a pathway for people to grow into themselves and grow as an, as somebody who makes decisions and, you know, isn't just looking for somebody to give them all the answers. So that was, that was a really important point. Another point was when we decided to niche down into, we actually started working in that business with DTC businesses. So basically e comm businesses that were selling something direct to consumer. And that was really anytime I think you can figure out, like, a pathway to niche down and make your audience smaller, you're going to have more effective results as a business owner. That was a really important point. And that decision came out of, it wasn't my first decision. That was actually very employee led. My employees were like, they were excited about working with those companies. And so that was a moment of, well, you got to let go of the reins. You want your people to be excited about what they're coming to work for. So that was an interesting moment in time because I feel like that was one of the first decisions that I really huge decisions for a company that I really said, okay, what do you guys want to do with this business? So that was, that was a good time. And then, you know, even I would say early on, I made the decision to, a lot of our contracts were like month to month contracts. I really believe in getting into a business, getting quick results, making an impact quickly, and not having my clients feel like they're locked into something long term. And that, that was a really important decision because it, I mean, it made it, you know, revenue was a little bit harder to predict, but it was a great selling feature and it was also something that I felt really, really good about. So I think that is, I learned that lesson and that has trickled over into my coaching business. So, you know, a lot, a lot of business coaches and there's, I've done coaching multiple different ways. I've signed year long contracts. I've done six month contracts for my own coaching for myself. But I knew when I started coaching, I wanted, I didn't want to have, I didn't want to have those six month contracts with my clients. So I do four week. It's very intensive. It's 90 minutes a week for four weeks straight. That's usually the block of time that I ask for because I, again, I wanted to get in. I wanted to triage, diagnose, get on track. For one thing in the business, we're not fixing everything. We're going to fix one thing at a time and help my clients make progress in what they're doing. And so far, that's been a really successful model for me.

00:21:35 - Speaker A
And, you know, and I think what probably helps as you're talking, you know, with people is that you've had the experience. So it's not like you're just like, hey, I want to become a business coach because I got a degree as a business in a business major. You've been in the trenches, and as you said, you've taken some of the things that you learned in your small business that you had for 15 years and now bringing it in here. So you are able to, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're really able to take that and be like, I know what I can do in four weeks because I know what has worked and I know I don't need the year to take it that way because I'm confident in my skills.

00:22:13 - Speaker B
Yeah, it's, I bring a, I feel like Liam Neeson when I say this, but I really do bring a unique set of skills to the table. I bring, you know, almost two decades of experience working in a small business, you know, almost 16 years now of running my own small business. I have all of the accounting background. So numbers for me are like, yeah, I mean, I can run through numbers very, very fast with no problem. And then I also have that marketing background in addition to just the experience of being an entrepreneur and also being a key, key employee to entrepreneurs. So sometimes what I end up doing actually do sometimes work with the employees of the entrepreneur if there is something, if it makes sense, and usually that's something we figure out together. But sometimes the entrepreneur just needs leadership, backup. They need support in that. And so that's what they'll get called in to do. And I'll go through that same coaching style, but I'll work with an employee. It just depends on what's going on in the business and what is needed. So it makes it a little bit hard to sell because trying to explain to people what I do difficult. It is not straightforward. It is nice to be able to hold up a book and say, oh, I also have this book. If you want to just spend $28 on that. Great. Do that. But I rely on my testimonials from clients to help me with overcoming objections and obstacles in my own sales.

00:23:39 - Speaker A
Right. So your mom was a little bit right with the accounting?

00:23:42 - Speaker B
Yes, she was. You know, I'm thankful for the background. I. I didn't need to take an intro to accounting when I started. When I started my business, I understood all of the financial statements from the start, and it's helped me a lot through the years. So it's a good setup for a career in entrepreneurship. I'm so happy that I have that background.

00:24:06 - Speaker A
Yeah. Because that's one of the things that I feel like if you have the understanding of numbers, like, and that was, like, I do not. So, like, that's my one thing where I always need to outsource. Like, I'm like, yeah, yeah, nope, I'll. I have no sense. I'm. You know, there's a long history of. I'm dyscalculus, so I literally have a learning style in that, and so it makes it even more difficult. But when I work with people that have that, it's just an interesting. As you said, it kind of gave you almost, like, that leg up because you didn't have to go through that. That's like, I got that. I understand that. And, you know, taking it through, obviously, you also are strong in that in math, and so that was a kind of a smart thing. So if someone's thinking about, okay, I want to be an entrepreneur, but here are some of the things, or I want to go to. I want to, you know, there are courses now they can take at university for, you know, entrepreneurs, which is great. When, you know, I went there, that was not anything. But having that, thinking about what your strengths are, I think sometimes is really important because someone would say, I don't know what I want to do. And this is like my kids literally going to college, you know, in a couple months. And one of the things I've said, you've done so many things in your growing up. Like, I've had him try every kind of job that he possibly could because. And then he's like, I definitely don't want to do this. I definitely want to do that because the pressure of these kids right now is so crazy. You're 18. You should not know what you want to do. I mean, there's a very small, you know, so I think some of them are like, I just want to be an entrepreneur because that kind of makes it vague. And I can put it down as my. As my, you know, major. So it's not undecided, and my parents don't give me shit. And, you know, all these different things. But it is one of those things. Think about what you are really good at, and you, like, you know, even if you're like, there's no. I don't want to go into that. Like, you know, I was talking to someone just recently, and they're super strong in history, but they're like, I don't want to be a teacher. I don't know what to do with it. I'm like, but just major in it, because you might find something that actually later can go into it. Why try to major in something that you're not good at? And it's gonna be more difficult. Like, don't do that to yourself.

00:26:06 - Speaker B
I don't think that unless you. Unless you are going in a path of. My mom actually had. She could have been an accountant if she. She was a bookkeeper, so she had, like, jobs that she had. She went from secretary to bookkeeper, so math just runs, and my sister's an accountant. So it's just like, I think that is something that we have all inherited, but I think that. I don't think you will ever regret investing in yourself and learning a skill. I think where the today's challenge is how expensive college can be, and that that isn't necessarily the right. That's definitely not the right path for everyone. In fact, totally. If I don't have children, but my wife and I talking about this, if we did have children, unless they. 100%, they were like, I want to be a doctor, or I want to be a lawyer. I want to, like, those very. Those technical things. Engineer even. Unless they knew for sure. And we were like, yeah, that's for sure. What they need, want, need and want to do. I would have a hard time sending my child to a four year university. I would probably encourage them to do, like, trades or go to community college for a little bit, you know, to just to hopefully not, you know, get into debt and to not have to struggle with all of those things that so many people, you know, continue to struggle with today, because they did go down that path. They went down that traditional four year degree, and you're gonna get a job where you'll make enough money. Well, you know, that's not necessarily the case. So, yeah, yeah. I do not envy parents who are in that position, who, like, are trying to create and send out into the world functional humans who benefit society. And, yeah, you're like, don't don't pay all that money or, like, unless, you know, for sure just go live for a little bit. Like, I can't imagine. Just. Yeah, I don't envy that role.

00:27:55 - Speaker A
No. And you know what? He's a soccer player. He's going to play college. You know, he was recruited for soccer. And so that makes it a little easier because I, again, you know, I played two sports in college. That was my path. But I wasn't good in school. I mean, I just. Dyslexia, you know, my oldest is dyslexic as well, going. But some of those things. And my husband and I know, you know, college is not for everyone. We know that very, you know, deeply. I mean, I struggled in school, but then did well in college. It was one of those things where I learned, wait, I am smart. You know, it was one of those really expensive kind of lessons in life. However, it was a great, you know, I got to play and continue my, you know, athletic career and all of those things, so. But it's tough. I mean, I've talked to so many parents that it's. It is one of those things where we live, there is a school that you can go to in high school and kind of do some trades, and that is really encouraged, which is great. You know, there are. There is opportunity, but not every place has that, so. Yeah, no, it is. It is one of those interesting kind of, you know, as we all grow, I mean, things are just. It's hard to navigate because there's so many things out there now where, you know, there is. It was a very kind of clear path even 20 years ago, and I wouldn't want to say clear, but, like, this is what you do, but it's kind of giving these kids a little bit more opportunity, which I do respect. And I think it's great. So I now would love to talk about your book. I mean, so what. What made you decide, hey, I want to be an author doing all this stuff.

00:29:24 - Speaker B
It's funny. That was something that's always been on my bucket list. Entrepreneurship was not. But being an author was, and I have written, so I've written, not published, like, three other books. I have literally three other books on the cloud. That. That's not it. That's not it. But this book burned. I went through it was. I. I mean, it was August 2021. I went through a really significant burnout. It was, it was like depths of soul bad. I. And I thought I was having it all boiled up one day, and I thought I was having a heart attack. I mean, I was having, I had like, all the symptoms that women have. So what did the whole thing. Went to the emergency room, was there for 8 hours that day, and did all the tests, all the money, I feel like. And it was a, you know, the cardiologist came in and said, you had a panic attack, and this is a warning sign, but it, you know, your heart's fine. I was like, okay, well, great, now what do I do, right? And, you know, got the standard advice of do less, set better boundaries, take some time off, which, you know, is great advice. But when you are burned out and you run a business, I think that's probably one of the worst things you can say to a business owner who, you know, sometimes if it had been a heart attack, they probably would have been admitted me to the hospital and I would have been forced to do that. But they were like, here, take some. Take this and talk to a psychiatrist and a therapist and sent me on my merry way. So it was, it was such a crazy experience going through that. And then, you know, I, at that time, my team was great, and I told, I got on the phone with them the next day, I got on the phone with them and I said, or on Zoom, and I just told them that. I was like, listen, I've got to take it easy. For the next couple of weeks. You all have to run this business, which they did seamlessly, which was amazing. But during that time, I was looking for resources, Juliet, for business owner burnout, specifically for business owners, for entrepreneurs. There was, there was not one book or course or document out there, and it was, all of it was, there were a handful of blog posts that basically said the same thing, set better boundaries, delegate, take a vacation, etcetera. And so I basically, I was like, this is not good enough, because we, I mean, business owners, we employ half of America. I mean, we employ almost. It's just telling business owners to do those things just, I think, spoke to a lack of understanding of what business owners go through. Yeah, so I started writing what I was going through. I started documenting everything I was doing. And, you know, I was in therapy, so I was getting bits and pieces of things that were helpful. And I basically put it together into a book and created a process for business owners to recognize it in themselves to begin with, because I think a lot of us don't want to admit we're burned out, but then also how to prevent it, how to overcome it, how to address the problems in your business that may be causing it, and ultimately how to leverage it, how to basically, I say, what do you. What did you learn from the burn? Take. Take those lessons. You know, I took what happened to me and made a book out of it. I'm not saying that's what everybody's going to do, but usually there's one or two things that come out of those really dark moments. I call them hell in the hallway moments. And, you know, one door closes, but the other door hasn't opened yet, or the window hasn't opened yet, and you're just stuck there in this hallway in the dark. It's such a strong visualization. Take what you learn in those moments and do something with it when you are recovered from burnout. And so, I mean, I had to write it because it wasn't out there and needed to be out there. And thankfully, I found a publisher who felt the same way. And that's. I mean, that's kind of the story of how that book was born.

00:33:22 - Speaker A
I love that. Now, did it just flow out of you, or was this something that took you, like, you know, was there times? Because obviously you were like, okay, I'm going through my experience. I'm sure those parts were, like, easy, easier, right, to write down, but maybe not. So I'm just very curious about this. Or was it like, you were like, I know I need to do a process. I need to stop and really reflect on things that can help. Was, you know, how from start to finish, when you decided to do this, did it kind of take you, what was your process for someone that's thinking they want to do this?

00:33:54 - Speaker B
Yeah, it took me about. It took me a little less than a year from the time I started writing it, which was probably October 2021, to the time that I felt like it was done and ready to submit to the publisher for the first round of edits. It was, yeah. So the first. The first draft, I'm sure some authors are probably gonna want to slap me when I say this, but for me, the first draft was the easiest. And I remember it was twelve. It was like 12,000 words, and it was a hot mess. And it was all over the place because I was just, like, writing. I was doing what everybody says, but for me, that was the easiest. Then it was. I had to, like, you know, flush that out some. And then I also, I had to do research. You know, I wanted. I was like, this is my experience. But is this the experience other people are having? Well, it turns out, yeah, it pretty much follows what I put in. The book was researched through talking to other business owners. There's a. There's only a few stories about other very. As much so, like a manual. I didn't fill it full of stories about business owners, but, you know, I interviewed a ton of business owners, always asked them about burnout, and I also did a bunch. As much data as I could find at the time. There really wasn't a ton of data about business owners going through research or going through burnout at the time. The only study that I could really find that had any, I think, real, I don't know, really good background and research behind it was a study that capital one did. I mean, that was literally the only business owner burnout study I could find. So I went from there and just, you know, dug into a lot of stuff, and it took about a year to write the whole thing and to get it to the point where I felt like it was ready to submit for the first time. And then there was another year of editing. So, I mean, it, like, writing it and getting it to the point of what's actually in this book was a two year process.

00:35:43 - Speaker A
Okay. And now, do you think the reason why there wasn't anything out there was this whole, like, business owners didn't want to admit that they were burned out. They didn't talk about it because there's so many things now, you know, with mental health that we do talk about more, like, you know, my kid graduating, I've been a mess. Like, crying at yoga. Like, people are like, okay, no, I'm not okay, and I need to talk about it. But a lot, you know, I'm just that type of person. But a lot of people don't like to talk about the vulnerable parts. Do you think that's why?

00:36:15 - Speaker B
Part of it, yeah. It really baffled me, given the time that we were in, because it was. It was late 2021 when I first started digging into it. And so we had gone through, you know, the first and second major Covid times. You know, we had gone through first Covid and then Delta variant. We had gone through that in that frame of time. So there was tons of stuff coming out about burnout for healthcare workers, burnout for caregivers, burnout for attorneys, burnout. I mean, teachers, all these people. There's still nothing. I was like, how is there nothing about burnout for business owners still? So I was really surprised. I think the other thing is, I think. And I talk about this in the book, so the first thing, definitely our ego a little bit, you know, gets, like, because we have something to prove, right? We want to prove all the naysayers wrong. We want to prove to somebody that we right.

00:37:02 - Speaker A
That actually makes a lot of sense.

00:37:03 - Speaker B
We can do this. But the other thing is, is I think that there is this thought of, well, I chose this path, so this is, I don't know, I'm paying my dues or this is my penance or whatever. Like, I put this on myself, so I deserve it. That's something that I think business owners struggle with. It's like, well, I did pick this path. I could have just worked in corporate America my whole life and going home and with a steady paycheck. Not true, but we'll just leave that there. I think that there's a. There's a some. There's something around that thought that. I think that's part of the reason why it wasn't being studied. And it's still not being studied as much as I would like it to be studied. That's one thing that I would like to fix. And I got to get a sponsor to help me fix that. But I would really like to do studies. I want to do a study about how many business owners go out of business due to burnout, like, because I think that, right, cash, cash flow related is usually number one and probably is always going to be number one. But I know a lot of business owners who have walked away from pretty successful businesses because they were burned out. They just couldn't do it anymore. So.

00:38:12 - Speaker A
Yeah, and I want to know that number. Yeah. And I think what you just said makes so much sense. And first, the ego, because right. When you start a business, it's like an idea, and there are so many people that know, what do you mean you can't do that. Right? I mean, that's one of the things you get those people that say, you can't do it, you can't do it. And you have that, that entrepreneur spirit of the person being like, no, I'm going to do it. As you said, the resilience, the toughness, the, you know, I got to do it. I got to do it. I think that is a huge one to admit, okay, maybe this wasn't the right path. Even though I always say that there's never a wrong path, I believe that any path that we're on, we learn something from that path and we take something if we are self aware and we can sit and be like, okay, what did I learn in that path? And then take it to possibly the path that you're meant to be on. Really take those pieces almost like stepping stones. I mean, I know that sounds sometimes so, like, silly, but it really is. And then what you said is that it's like, yeah, it's okay. I now, I chose this, so how can I say I am burnt out? But, like, that's where. And this is gonna sound so ridiculous, but I have friends that have gone through construction, and they literally, it flips their entire world upside down. And they say, well, I can't complain about it because I have the money to do construction, so I can't complain. And I'm like, but you can complain because it's really hard. You're hooking and you have small kids and you're doing something. Yes, you're very fortunate that you can do that, but you're also allowed to talk about it because when you don't talk about it and you stuff it, it's gonna come out somewhere. And that's when the health and, I mean, I've had so many friends, like, literally go through, you know, gain 20 pounds, you know, fight with, like, all of these really bad things. And so I, it sounds so silly, but I kind of equate that in my head. It's like, we can't complain about this because we chose this path, but that's what is limiting more conversations about it. And that's what's actually going to, like, help people get out of that burnout and maybe not go into the burnout because they can talk. So I love that you're doing that and bringing awareness.

00:40:26 - Speaker B
It's a very entrepreneurship on its own is a very isolating experience. And the longer you go in it, the more isolating it becomes because there are fewer people who make it as far as you do. So you're already, you know, greatly narrowing down who can potentially be in your support group, who, a, understands what you're going through and B, is willing to listen and not judge you. And then you get into that category of, I mean, I. One of the biggest things that I talk about is making sure you have one other business owner in your network that you could go to tomorrow and say, I have to file for bankruptcy. And they're not going to judge and they're going on, they're not going to think of you any differently if you have to go through that, they're going to sympathize with you. They're going to say, okay, let's figure out how to get you out on the other side of this and set you up for success so that we don't have to do that again. Like, they're not going to judge you for that, and those are, those are the people that every business owner needs in their support group. And, and like, and, you know, on the other side, they're not going to treat you only any differently. If you happen to write a best selling book or, you know, if you happen to find all of this massive success, they're still going to treat you the same. They're gonna be like, okay, how are you? No, really, how are you? Yeah, you know, they're gonna push back on that and you've gotta have, it's got, I really feel like it's gotta be another business owner and entrepreneur because as much as they want to understand it, if your best friend or if your mom or your, you know, your family, your sister, your partner, your spouse, if they are not in that business journey, if they don't do it day in and day out, they are just not going to get it. They just don't understand. They just don't get it. I mean, my mom for the longest time was like, I just don't understand why you don't go back and get a job. Like, she's like, you got all this, all of these degrees back here. You know, you got all this stuff. Finally she gets it, I think, because she's actually holding a book of mine and she sees that. But it's been, I mean, it, you gotta have other people who are going through a similar journey that you feel like no matter how successful or how, you know, unsuccessful, whatever that means to you are, they're gonna treat you the same. They're gonna give you the same seat at the table and they'll even buy your dinner when you're having a rough time. You know, like, those are the people you want.

00:42:50 - Speaker A
And it sounds so, like, cynic. I mean, because it is, like, so many people talk about it, but so many people don't actually practice it. And it is so right. You have to have people in your corner that are there for you, whether you're on the up or the down. Because when you're successful, it also is exhausting. That's when the burnout happens a lot of times, you know, also, like, you could be unsuccessful and have burnout for other reasons, and then you're successful and you can't maintain that lifestyle of the travel, all these different things. There's so many aspects to both sides of it, as you said, that's so important to have that person that can, you can also say, hey, I'm really excited that my business has gotten to here, but I'm really tired and I don't know that I can do this again tomorrow and feel like they're not going to be like, oh, wow, you have all this money. Who cares?

00:43:38 - Speaker B
Right?

00:43:38 - Speaker A
Because that is something that, again, is kind of talking about the construction. It doesn't. Money doesn't buy you happiness. I mean, that people have been saying that for years and years and years, and it is so true. You have to have self awareness of yourself. You have to have the confidence in yourself. You have to have the love for yourself. But then you also have to have people around you that, as you said, when you're down, they're not going to kick you. When you're up, they're not going to drag you down. They're just going to treat you the same in both situations and be there for you. So I love that.

00:44:07 - Speaker B
Yeah, it's. It's crucial. And it's. I feel very strongly when people ask me, like, what's the one thing, if you had to tell one, somebody one thing that they can do to help prevent burnout? It's that it's making sure that you have. I mean, in my group is small. There literally there's four people that I, that are business owners or have been a business. Actually, one person, he went back to corporate America, but he's been a business owner, so he gets it. You know, there are literally four people in my network that I will go to and that I feel like I could have that conversation with. You don't need a lot of people, but you need at least one that you feel like you can go to.

00:44:45 - Speaker A
Yeah. Simon said it says that you need one person to believe in you, but you also need that one person to support you and understand you. And, you know, I talk about this on my podcast, word blindness, the dyslexic podcast, because it's very similar. Like, people would say, oh, isn't that just flipping your B's and D's? And I'm like, oh, my God, I wish it was just flipping my b's and D's. Like, what I endure each day because of my dyslexia, I crack on and I deal, but when someone else that's dyslexic, get it, I'm like, yeah, I just got seven emails that are, like, four pages long. They're like, ugh. Where you have someone else that they can't even imagine. Like, they're like, what? So what? I'm like, oh, I don't think you understand how long it takes and the processing that I have to do. I do it, and I get it done. But I'm really tired, and some of those days are hard days.

00:45:30 - Speaker B
That's like telling I have ADHD and there's a project in my house that I'm like, oh. And I do complain about it, and my mom is like, just get started. And I'm like, but it's not that simple. It's not that simple.

00:45:44 - Speaker A
No. Right. It's not that simple. I love that. Can you, Julie, hold the book up just so we can. Yeah, we can see it because it's a beautiful cover.

00:45:52 - Speaker B
It is. Yeah.

00:45:53 - Speaker A
It's so. I love it. It's a sleek. And I feel like it's just.

00:45:57 - Speaker B
That's.

00:45:57 - Speaker A
I'm so happy for you, even though we just met. I mean, this is like, I'm so happy for you because it is. You could feel how excited you are.

00:46:05 - Speaker B
I actually slept with this book for like three days after I got them in the mail. It was. I was like, oh, I was cuddling with my book. I mean, it's. I like, I've never had. I've never had a child, but it is. I. When I got it, I said, this is. This is a work of art. It feels like I birthed a work of art. I don't know how else to describe it. And it. I didn't feel that way until I actually held the book, because up until that point, it was all theory. It was all on the computer, you know, all the stuff. But when you actually get that printed copy of your book in your hand, there is no. I've never had that feeling in my life. That was a beautiful moment. Yeah.

00:46:42 - Speaker A
That's so exciting. Where can people find.

00:46:44 - Speaker B
Anywhere books are sold? So Amazon, Barnes and Noble, target, anywhere. Any online retailer. You can also go to my website, thejulyb.com burned. And if you buy it and then go to that site, I have, like $2,000 worth of free bonuses, including how I got a book deal. That's one of the bonuses I'm giving away as a PDF. That's amazing about how I did that. So. So all kinds of bonuses. If you go to that and fill.

00:47:10 - Speaker A
Out that form, that's awesome, because that people are going to want to know that. That's definitely because that is. And I love that you're also willing, because I think that also shows your confidence in what you're doing. You're like, I can give you all this free stuff. You're still, you know, if you're in a spot, you're still going to need me because there's you still got to do it. You're still going to do it, right? Well, that's, sometimes that's the hard part. But, Julie, thank you so much for joining your next stop. You guys know what to do, like rate, review and share. You don't know who needs to hear this. You also don't know who right now is like, I want to get a book deal. I don't have do it. Is it worth doing a book? There's so many books out there now. Is it something that I want to do? Go to Julie's website and she will give you information there. Go to her Instagram, go to her LinkedIn and connect, because you don't know who needs to hear this episode. So thank you so much, Julie.

00:47:54 - Speaker B
Thanks for having me. Juliethe.