YNS Live with NFL Thread Carey Shuffman

Listen to a new episode of YNS Live with NFL Thread recorded live on Fireside with hosts Juliet Hahn and Cynthia Zordich, featuring Special Guest Carey Shuffman.

Carey Shuffman is the Head of the Women's Segment, a role she's held since 2017. She is responsible for the development and implementation of UBS's strategy to address the unique financial needs of women. In this role, Carey and her team are focused on financial education and research, engagement and creative resources, with the goal of helping women navigate their financial lives. As a subject matter expert on the topic of women and financial wellbeing, Carey travels the country speaking at seminars and events. She has been a regular contributor to print and television media, including Barron’s, CNBC, Parents Magazine, Marie Claire and more. She also speaks at large scale conferences and corporate organizations on the topic of women's financial empowerment, and has spoken to audiences at Google, the National Football League (NFL), The Female Quotient and others. Carey also works closely with Managers and Financial Advisors across the US to support and promote the Women’s Segment efforts. Carey has been with UBS for over a decade and previously held a number of strategic roles across the firm, including Sales Strategy and Wealth Management Transformation, where she focused on building out the firm's holistic wealth management and financial planning services. She is also a past recipient of the UBS Global Employee Volunteer Award for her work in the local community. In 2022, Carey was selected to be a member of the UBS Americas Diversity, Equity & Inclusion Council, and in 2023, she was recognized on the Crain’s New York Business Women of Influence: Rising Stars list. Carey received her BA in Economics from the University of Pennsylvania and holds her FINRA Series 7 and 66 licenses. She currently resides in New York City with her husband. © UBS 2023. All rights reserved. UBS Financial Services Inc. is a subsidiary of UBS AG. Member FINRA/SIPC.

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You can find Carey on LinkedIn and check out the UBS Website.

Remarkable Quotes

“I think working in the wealth management industry is such a people business. We get to actually help people plan for their futures and achieve their goals.”

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Transcription:

00:00:00
Created live on fireside. Welcome to wine us live with NFL thread. We are always so happy to bring you guys stories, and today is a really exciting one because we have Carey Shuffman from UBS. And Cynthia, would you like to kind of take us through a little bit about the relationship? But welcome, Carey to win us live with NFL Thread.

00:00:21
Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. We're so glad to have you, Carey, because our relationship has gone for over like, six years now, which is crazy when you think about it. We met the first time when we were having the Own Your Worth workshop with UBS in Nashville, which we had so much fun there at the draft, at the NFL draft there. And we continued on.

00:00:44
We went to Nashville. We went to Philadelphia, Miami, Atlanta, chicago. Two events in one weekend. I look back on that sometimes. You know how, like, when you do things like, whoa, how did we do that?

00:00:58
So we had a Thursday event and then a Saturday event. That was crazy. Yeah. I just appreciate you because when you get in front of the NFL women and you share your own personal story of how you came across, understanding the importance of saving and finance, and then you make them understand that importance for themselves. And it is like own.

00:01:21
Your worth means so much. It says so much. So I thank you for being here so we can talk more about everything that we do. Well, thank you so much. And that means a lot both to me, personally, professionally, to us at UBS, to our women's segment.

00:01:37
You've been terrific partners, and it's been so great to share the Own Your Worth message with all the incredible women of NFL Thread. Great. Yeah. So you're the head of women's strategic segment at UBS, right? With Client Strategies office?

00:01:51
You've held that now for how many years? And how did you kind of grow into that position? Yeah, so it's been almost six years, six years this summer that I've been in this role, which is crazy. Six years flies by. I've been at UBS for almost a dozen years.

00:02:08
It's a wonderful place to work. And really what happened was six, seven years ago is we were thinking as a firm, strategically, about how can we really meet our clients where they are? How can we address the unique needs that our clients have, that people have when it comes to their financial lives? What does that look like, and how can we do that in the best way that also addresses demographic changes, the growth that we're seeing in certain demographics. So the decision was made to build out these strategic client segments, including our Women's segment, given that women control and are on track to control more wealth than ever before in the US.

00:02:52
And around the world, which, frankly, I think is overdue. And we saw tremendous opportunity to help women navigate their financial lives, prepare for their financial futures. And we really saw an opportunity to make sure that women are in a place where they can own their worth, as we like to say, around this tremendous opportunity that they have around their wealth, while also recognizing certain demographic trends. The fact that women tend to live longer than men, on average, about five years, divorce rates in the US. Still continue to hover at about slightly below 50%.

00:03:25
Many women are choosing not to get married, to remain single. And so all of these trends are sort of conspiring to the fact that many women are in a position where they have to manage their finances on their own. Coupled with that changing face, that changing female face of wealth, it became very clear to us that there was a real need to focus on this space and really help women as they navigated their financial journeys.

00:03:50
To me, it's so exciting. And while we were trying to figure things out before, Juliet admitted that when it comes to finances, she's like, Dan does all that, and no. And I feel like when you started, I remember you giving us the statistics about that very fact that so many women do put that in the hands, no matter what they do, no matter how successful they are, even the CEOs of companies are feeling the same way. But do you feel like that since you started your study and since those initial steps? Has that changed over the last six years?

00:04:30
Yeah, it's a great question, and I think, Juliet, I hear that a lot. That's really what our research has uncovered. And so much of what we do, our goal is to bring more women to the financial table. And all women, right. Women are a population, not a segment, despite my title.

00:04:45
And so whether you are a C suite executive or you're running a business or you do not work outside the home and you're raising children, or you are just starting out with your first job and facing a mountain, of student loans or you're thinking about retirement in your 60s. Whoever you are, wherever you are, our goal is to make sure that you feel like you have a good handle on where you stand currently, what your current financial picture is, and then where you're heading in the future. And can you achieve the goals that are most important to you? Because the reality is, whether we like it or not, whether money is still a taboo topic, money still has such tremendous impact on our lives. And I think it's important that we acknowledge that and that we look at as a positive, as an opportunity, right.

00:05:31
If we can take a more active role in understanding what's coming in, what's going out, our income, our spending, our financial planning for the future, then we can be in a better place to achieve the goals that we have for ourselves. Our loved ones, our communities, the world around us. So that's sort of the importance of it. And I think that's really what we talk about for women who are engaged or maybe who are looking to become more engaged. And so to answer your question, Cynthia, I think our initial owner, worth Research, six years ago showed that about half of women in heterosexual couples and about 40% of women in same sex couples told us that they were not engaged in the long term financial decisions within their households and that they deferred those decisions to a partner or spouse.

00:06:17
And again, when we say long term financial decisions, we're talking about investing, financial planning, making sure that you have a will or an estate plan or important documentation, insurance, so less like the short term day to day liquidity considerations. We see women are very involved in those, according to our research. But the longer term decisions are where we saw many women said, I don't have time. I'm not interested. My spouse or partner handles it.

00:06:44
And that's really been what we've been trying to change. And I think that we're seeing a positive shift to answer that question honestly because of the events of the last few years. Yeah. And I would love to jump in because when I was reading the article, the own your worth and also the segment that was out in the playbook this year it's funny because I have never been good at math and it was like as I was reading it math as a young girl, it was like oh, you're not good at it. You're not going to be taught it.

00:07:12
So I never grasped that concept. So then when I married my husband, who is very like, hey, do you want to be involved in this? Do you want to be involved in that? And as I was reading the article and it was so true, I'm like, no, you got this, because I have this part of the family. And then I did choose to stay home, and then I started my own business.

00:07:28
So it's kind of gone full circle. But I still because I didn't have that confidence with money. I've never been good with money, never been good with numbers, because it wasn't something that resonated with me when I was young, that I always was just like, okay. So I love that you guys are kind of changing that narrative and really bringing it out and talking, because when Cynthia said we were doing this and I was reading that, I was like, I'm one of those women. I literally am like, Honey, you got this.

00:07:54
So I think it's so important, and. I think it's really important to mention you're not alone. Right. This is something that we see across the board. And I think so much of the reason that we've done all this research over the last six years and actually gone out and spoken to and surveyed thousands and thousands of women single women, married women, divorced women, widowed.

00:08:12
Women from ages early 20s all the way up to 80s, all different professions, life situations is because we want to emphasize that this is a situation that we see across the board. And so you're not alone. There's nothing to be embarrassed about, but how can we try to get you more engaged, get you more involved? And I think some of that stuff starts so early on. We look at around girls and boys and Stem, or we look at financial competence rates, and it's really important.

00:08:43
And I always say this, this is not a competence issue whatsoever between the genders. In fact, actually, financial literacy scores between women and men are relatively equal. And there's a lot of research, I'm pleased to say, that shows that women actually outperform men in long term investing. And yet there's this confidence gap that we continue to see that I think often prevents many women from feeling like they can have a seat at the table. So twice as many men, through our research, told us that they're confident in investing compared to women.

00:09:19
And 70% of the women that we surveyed in our research said that they believe that women as a whole overestimate what's required to be financially engaged. So this is certainly a prolific problem, and we're really trying to change the narrative and emphasize you don't have to be an expert. You don't have to know how to calculate a bond yield or watch finance shows on TV every day to be able to say what's most important to me, to my family, and how is our financial situation going to help achieve that or alleviate the concerns that we have. And that's really what it's all about.

00:09:54
Cynthia, I think you're on mute. Yeah, I feel it's so important to me. First of all, I sometimes think it's women just being respectful, too. It's almost like saying, hey, I'm going to grill today. Got it.

00:10:06
And then it's like, Wait, I do the grilling. So I feel like you also try to be respectful, but what I want to talk about is the fact that for the NFL community, I look at the idea that you can start saving when you're young and at some point in your life, because you started saving when you were young. You have the opportunity to impact your family, that you have the opportunity to help your husband when he's going through a transition, when he's trying to figure out what he wants to do. You have the opportunity to help your children go through school. You can create long lasting legacy for your family.

00:10:49
And I think there's nothing more powerful than that. And when we had one of the workshops in Philadelphia, I think it was where we did the math, and we just showed on the smallest scale what you could save, it freaked everybody out, because, Juliet, you wouldn't believe this. It was like, if you take the money that you spend on a latte every day, every morning, and you save it, it's about one $800 a year. And if you take that one $800 a year and invest it over ten years, it's up in the 80 something thousand. I remember we made a big check and presented it, and at 20, it's like three times the amount.

00:11:27
And so the women were like, what? Because what we were thinking was, what if you took $10,000 and just invested it and just watched it grow? And I'm sorry if I'm rambling, but to me, this information is so important for this NFL community. I'll never forget when Wallet, who's a former player, and Carey came and stood before the group and he shared that. He explained to his family, listen, let me get situated so I can help you with the money that I grow and not the money that I earn.

00:12:03
If I help you with the money that I earn, we're all going to be in a bad situation. We're all going to be broke. Let's just work on what we earn with that money. Grow, not earn. And everybody was just like, it made so much sense.

00:12:16
It was like this light bulb went off. So as the gatekeeper in the NFL, I love sharing this information with this NFL family because it can start today. You can start saving right now. Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I think the importance of saving, of having an emergency fund, of having that plan in place, it doesn't have to be you don't have to start with a full, comprehensive financial plan that takes you from now to 50 years from now.

00:12:45
It's more like, what are we trying to accomplish in the next year? What do we have coming in? How much of that do we want to save? What are the expenses that we have to pay for? Right?

00:12:55
So kind of looking at that cash flow, full picture. So what's coming in versus what's going out? And then finding the opportunities to save, to build that emergency fund, to invest some of those savings. And of course, and I have to say this, investments, there are risks with investments, you can't guarantee any type of return by any means, but over time, historically, we have seen that if you invest money, it will grow over time, of course, subject to market conditions. But investing is a really great way to potentially grow your wealth.

00:13:30
And so is saving, of course. And having that is, I think, a really important thing. And we actually often talk about in Wallet talks about this a lot, the concept of needs, wants and wishes as you think about your financial life. And I think that's a great kind of thing to think about. So 50% of your spending should go to your needs, right?

00:13:50
What do you actually need to survive as a person, as a family? Food, shelter, transportation, clothing to get to wear to work or to wear around. Not maybe like shopping clothing, but just the basic needs. 50% of that should go, and then 30% should go to want. So, for example, if you want to buy that latte every day and you are budgeting for it, you absolutely should.

00:14:15
If it brings you joy, it's your caffeine in the morning, that's fine, but to understand what are the trade offs, right? And then that last 20% can be your wishes. Maybe it's a family vacation or thinking about saving up for that dream home or buying a new car that you don't really need, but it would be really nice to have. So we love to think of that 50 30, 20 needs, wants, wishes rule as a great thing to think about. And then the last thing I'd say when we think about budgets, everyone often thinks of a budget and they associate it with limitation.

00:14:47
I like to think of a budget as an opportunity. If you can stay on budget, it means you're affording those needs, wants, and potentially wishes that are important to you. It means you're saving and building that nest egg, building that foundation that can then grow over time. So to me, following a budget, developing a budget, it's really all about the opportunity ahead of you, as opposed to limiting yourself in any way. That's great.

00:15:10
Cynthia, can I ask, I just would love to know, Carey, why did you get into finance? Can you give us a little bit of your path of how you landed where you are? Sure, yeah. Absolutely. So I was always interested, generally, I didn't even think I fully understood the markets per se, but I was always interested in how the world worked, how, okay, you go to a store and you buy groceries, where does that money come from?

00:15:36
How does it work, how do the groceries get to the store? You go on a vacation, how does that get paid for all of those things? I was always really fascinated by, and I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I got to college. And so I figured, all right, I'm just going to pick a practical degree. And economics seemed practical.

00:15:53
It seemed like a good way of understanding how the world works, how society works. And I really enjoyed it and started at UBS almost twelve years ago and really loved what I did. I think working in the wealth management industry, it's such a people business. We get to actually help people plan for their futures, achieve their goals, whether that's buying that dream home or putting kids or grandchildren through college, or giving back to the causes or the charities that are most important to you. Retiring at a certain age, I just found that really rewarding.

00:16:29
And I feel like there's so much opportunity in this business to change the way we do it. Whether that means engaging with more women, engaging with people of color, engaging with underrepresented communities, and really trying to share, like, the own your worth message really around trying to get more people at the financial table, because financial wellbeing and overall well being are inextricably linked. And so I see tremendous opportunity to really try to affect positive change through the conversation around financial wellbeing and financial participation, as we like to call it. I love that. Were your parents in the finance world as you were the curious kid?

00:17:12
No, my mom's a teacher, my dad's a lawyer. They are always like, I don't really understand what you do, but they're also very proud. So it's very nice. But yeah, no, there was no sort of finance background in my family whatsoever. It just seemed when I was 18 and all of my friends were and I were thinking about what do we do with our lives, I just figured I'd go with the practical option.

00:17:36
And then it's really, I would say, paid off tremendously in terms of actually finding I don't know if it's sort of like the chicken and the egg. I picked a practical field and then I developed this wonderful passion and this opportunity to help women. So I don't know if it was like my calling or if this is how it all I don't know how it all netted out, but I'm very grateful. Well, but I think when you said that you were always interested in how things worked, it's the curious mind. And that's what we talk about on this podcast, is what I talk about in life.

00:18:07
Having a curious mind and following that curious mind sometimes leads us to beautiful things. So you should always keep that curious mind open. So thank you for sharing that. Of course. Yeah.

00:18:18
For me, I feel like we've had so many wonderful opportunities together. We shared some amazing content through the playbook in all five volumes. There's serious content from UBS. And when we have the workshops, the women are just so tuned in. They're so attentive to everything that's being said.

00:18:38
So here's what I want to ask you. Say one of the women at one of the events wants to get started. You guys always say start the conversation. So walk me through how you would absolutely get in there and help somebody, anybody, really. But in this particular case, we are talking about NFL Women.

00:18:57
Walk us through that process. Yeah, it's a great question. So I would say a few different things. The first would be we have wonderful resources online that are available to everyone. You don't have to be a UBS client.

00:19:09
It's available to the general public. So ubs.com Women is our main website. And then we also have an educational website, ubs.com Mymoneymove, with content on various financial topics based on our research that are most important to the women that we surveyed. Things like developing a budget, planning for life's, what ifs thinking about how to retire whatever it might be. So those would be two things ubs.com women and then ubs.com mymoneymove our Athletes and Entertainer segment.

00:19:43
And Cynthia, you mentioned Wallet, who's a wonderful colleague and friend who leads our sports and entertainment division. He and his team also have terrific resources for those in the spotlight, athletes, entertainers and their families that's [email protected] legacy. So I say all that to say we really have tremendous resources both specifically for women investors as well as for athletes and entertainers and their families. And I think what's really great is we kind of bring those two things together to bear and it's particularly relevant for your audience. So that would be the first thing.

00:20:17
And then we have a workforce of 6000 plus financial advisors, terrific financial advisors across the country in pretty much every state and city in the US. And so they are the ones that are the boots on the ground actually helping clients or prospective clients understand how do we develop a financial plan that is suitable and relevant to you, what are your goals, what are your needs? And then really crafting that conversation based on that unique person's considerations and suitability. So that would be the next step, right? If someone's really interested in having that conversation, we can help connect them with a UBS advisor and they can I think finding an advisor is an extremely important process.

00:21:01
You want to find someone that resonates with you, that you feel like you have a good rapport. So certainly you can talk to or interview a couple of different people and see maybe someone played professional sports and you have that alignment. Or maybe you meet someone who's incredibly passionate about helping women navigate their financial lives and he or she really you feel like he or she gets you. So that would be the next process in connecting someone with a financial advice. And then in one question, so I want you to continue.

00:21:32
Are you that first call in is Wallet that first call for the NFL community? We definitely can be. And then I would say also if you go on any of our websites that I mentioned before, ubs.com womenubs. comlegacy, and you scroll down, there's actually a get in touch section. You can actually put in your name, your contact information and what you're looking for.

00:21:57
And that goes to a central sort of group, if you will. I don't know what the right word is. And they will then kind of ping that inquiry to the right person based on what you fill out. So that's another great way of just being directly, potentially connected with an advisor as well. So either way, we're happy to help kind of act as the conduit.

00:22:18
But I also think that's a great direct way to do it right on our website.

00:22:26
Yeah. Thank you. Okay, they've made a connection, right? But now so what happens after that? They've made the connection, they're interested, they have a plan.

00:22:35
You mentioned that women, after COVID, want to give they want to impact the world. They want to change things. So that's interesting because that takes planning and organizing their legacy. So what happens now? Is there this conversation about what are your dreams, what are your goals?

00:22:54
Yeah. So in a meeting with a financial advisor, he or she will sit down with your spouse or partner, if you're married, with whomever, you may want to have other trusting family members or loved ones. Really try to understand who are you, what's most important to you, what are your goals? What's your current financial situation? So they'll need to really understand that current picture.

00:23:17
What are your assets? Will you have what are your liabilities or what's your debt, what's your income look like, your cash flow versus your spending? And then from there, they can start to say, all right, what are your goals now? Then, like, let's say three to five years from now, and then all the way into the future and beyond, your legacy goals, as we say. And then from there, they can start to craft a plan that is right for you.

00:23:39
And, you know, they'll ask some tough questions. But again, you know, Juliet, to your point about, you know, they're not technical, right? Nobody's saying, like, we're, you know, asking complicated questions around, like, calculations. It's really I mean, they're really profound questions that you might be asked. Like, we have some wonderful advisors who will say to a potential client or prospective client, what keeps you up at night?

00:24:02
What a great question. And that's a very personal question. And I like to say, nobody knows your life better than you do, so nobody's more equipped to answer that question than you are, so the conversation will be had. And then, obviously, you need to agree on many different things the structure of the relationship, the fees that are involved, what you're looking to get out of the relationship, versus what that advisor is going to provide. That's all separate and unique to an individual investor or client.

00:24:27
But from there, that starts a potential advisor relationship. And that advisor can be your sounding board. They can help answer the questions that you have. They can help fill in the gaps that you have. They can help develop that financial plan, and they can also say, hey, you have two minor children.

00:24:46
Do you have guardianship documentation in place? Have you thought about if something happened to you, what are your wishes? We don't provide legal advice by any means, but do you have those important documentations, the power of attorney, a healthcare proxy, guardianship of minor children? They might say, you know what? Last year you told me that you thought you spent this and saved that, but it actually looks like you spent a little more, so maybe we want to watch that, or maybe you spent a little bit less, and actually, now you saved more.

00:25:20
So let's put more of that into the markets. Let's invest more of that so that expert advisor, financial professional can really help you both get on track and stay on track and fill in some of those gaps. And one of the things that I kind of love that you said, and it always brings us back to what connects people, is that someone's asking someone questions that are going to give a little insight into who they are. And so it's about the stories. It's again, you're connecting with someone and as you said, you can go through a couple of different financial advisors.

00:25:50
Like, you might not connect with this one, but then you might really connect with that. And I think that's such an important thing that UBS has that kind of funnel to say, hey, here are a couple of people, let's sit down, let's see if your personalities kind of go, let's ask you those questions that are going to make you think a little bit. And I think there's a lot of times where people maybe are a little nervous about that because they don't know. As you said, if I went to a financial advisor and he starts asking me math questions, I was sweating, right? But knowing the process which Cynthia asked you, I think is really helpful.

00:26:20
And for the NFL community to think, as Cynthia said, they know, right, their spouse is not going to be in the league forever. That money is going to stop at some point. So really setting themselves up early, which a lot of people don't like to think about. You don't like to think about the stuff that you have to do. But it's really important, especially when you're in the professional athletic world, to really set yourself up for that.

00:26:42
So this relationship is such a beautiful one that where you guys can come in, really show your personality, say, here are the different things, here are the blocks, this is how you're going to do it. Here's the links, this is the relationship that could be formed. Let's sit down and really talk and explore. I think it's such a beautiful thing. Yeah.

00:26:59
And I will say on our website, that educational website I mentioned, ubs.com, mymoneymove one of the topics is why should I seek professional financial advice and what does that look like? So there are the questions that you should ask an advisor. There's more information about finding an advisor that's right for you, because I think it is so important. And then to Cynthia's point, as our latest research has shown, women in particular have told us that they were tremendously impacted by the events of the last few years. COVID-19 arise in social activism, geopolitical and economic uncertainty.

00:27:34
All of these things, women have really told us, have made them reevaluate what's most important to them. And they see money as a tool to achieve their life's vision and their life's purpose. And so I think. An advisor can actually help. I mean, that's kind of a daunting thought, right?

00:27:47
How do I actually do that? Certainly there are ways in every day. Maybe you buy from companies whose mission aligns with your own or you don't buy from companies whose missions don't align with your own. That's a pretty simple decision at the point of sale that you can make. But some of those bigger conversations around like, do I want to switch careers to find more meaningful work?

00:28:05
Do I want to start a business? Do I want to give back to charity? And what does that look like? Do I want to align my investments with my values? An advisor can really help you help you do that.

00:28:15
Yeah. And I think what you said is because it's really important. I totally give to charity. I do all these different things and it's really important. If I didn't, my husband who was there being like, hey, you got to think about it, right?

00:28:26
Because I'm like, oh, this person needs it, this person. And if you have a plan, even though some of us that love to live a little bit in the chaos, love to kind of live by the seat of our pants, to have a loose plan is always important, especially when it comes to your finances, because you never know when things can change. And if you don't have that and I think a lot of times people also, NFL community or not, maybe are like, well, maybe I make this. Is that enough for a financial planner? And they don't know to go there, right?

00:28:52
But it really, as you guys said, it can start today and it doesn't matter. You talk to someone, say, hey, this is what I'm making, this is what I want in the future. And it's really about planning for that future. So you might not be there yet, but a financial planner is going to be able to help you get to that and achieve that. And I think that's what is so important and such a good message to.

00:29:10
Really be out there. Absolutely, yes. I want to definitely mention that anybody that is interested in reading two amazing articles and features from UBS in this issue of the Playbook can just go to Nflt.com Pivot. And there's a fantastic article that is the next stage that deals mostly with the sports and entertainment and then there's also women on purpose. And I think, Carey, that there's so many, the facts there, the stats there, it's just incredible.

00:29:43
And what people are doing and what women are doing and where women are heading, they're changing and growing in finance and it's a beautiful thing to see and I want everybody to read them. They're probably also available on ubs.com, but it's really nice to see it in The Playbook because it is kind of like targeted towards this community. And so, yeah, if anybody wants to, it's downloadable, you can read it right there online. So I appreciate you guys putting that content in the playbook and I appreciate our relationship. I love that all of our guests at our events get to talk to you guys one on one.

00:30:23
So it's been really beneficial for so many people just to have that good information in their heads, and hopefully it leads to them building their own legacies. Absolutely. Well, we've loved working with you, Cynthia, and NFL Thread and being a part of so many wonderful events over the years. And thank you for sharing important messages that we have with your community. Yes, absolutely.

00:30:50
Juliet, I think you're on mute. I am on mute. I'm going to be the time cop. It's 220.

00:31:02
I know we want to wrap this up because, Carey, I know that you have to run for your meeting, but we just want to thank you again for joining YNS Live with NFL Thread and being such a support to NFL Thread, and we look forward to seeing you at future events. Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me.