S3E5: Overcoming Childhood Struggles - Jon Markel’s Dyslexia Journey

Jon Markel, a member of the band Carbon Leaf, joins Juliet and Brent on this episode. Growing up with dyslexia, Jon shares his unique perspective on navigating challenges as an adult. His journey from early struggles with reading and school to finding his stride in progressive education at Goddard College in Vermont brings a personal touch to understanding dyslexia's impact. Jon's honesty and resilience in managing dyslexia, alongside his musical talents, make him a relatable and credible voice on this important topic.

In this episode, you will be able to:

• Mastering Dyslexia as an Adult: Unveiling the Strategies for Success
• The Profound Impact of Early Dyslexia Diagnosis: What You Need to Know
• Navigating ADHD and Dyslexia: Effective Management Strategies Revealed
• The Crucial Role of Supportive Family in Conquering Dyslexia Challenges
• Transitioning to Professional Success with Dyslexia: Key Insights for a Smooth Journey

Transcript:

00:00:02
Welcome back to Word Blindness, Dyslexia Exposed. I'm Juliet Hahn here with my co host, Brent Sopol. How are you? Yes. It's a Monday.

00:00:12
Monday. I'm wonderful. Oh, good. And we have a really special guest, Jon Markle. How are you?

00:00:20
Good, how are you? I'm good. Special at best. We're all special. You're in the right spot for special.

00:00:30
Clean special over leading the way. Exactly, exactly. So I'm going to preface for a second. So Jon is in a band, Carbon Leaf. But the fun thing is.

00:00:39
Well, that's fun. But I'm going to bring it back to me to make it more fun. Well, you don't have your attention hat on. I know. My husband Jon got me a hat that says, I love attention, which.

00:00:52
Okay, well, I do like attention. So Jon and I grew up together. He was my sister Megan and Jon's age, and so two years younger than me in high school. And I drove Jon. He lived literally down the street, swam.

00:01:05
I mean, we. Our families were really kind of intertwined in our younger years in the neighborhood at Sunnybrook. For anyone that grew up with us in Morristown, that's listening to this, you know it. There's a lot that kind of intertwined. And I just recently found out that you were dyslexic through Morstown Alumni Magazine, because Hahnielle Fetty sent it to me, and I was like, wait.

00:01:26
So I called Megan and Jon and said, I didn't realize Jon Markle was dyslexic. You guys know that I do this podcast, right? But they are like, I love them to death, but they're useless in any of these kind of worlds. They're like, oh, yeah, we didn't think about it. Totally fine.

00:01:42
Because it's not their world. But I said to Brent, I was like, listen, I have a really great guest. I'm really hoping that he says yes because I have such fond memories again of our families, so intertwined. And I didn't realize that you struggled in school, where we all know my story, that I struggled and I didn't know I had dyslexia. So welcome and thank you for joining us.

00:02:04
Yeah, thank you. It's good to be here. I appreciate you asking me. Well, accepting it, especially accepting it for a Monday morning. So we're very thrilled.

00:02:14
I'm a musician, so every day is the same. To me, Monday is the same as Thursday. This is true. This is true. So, Jon, I want to start a little bit of when you were diagnosed, when did you find out that you struggled or that you thought differently or you learned differently or that you were different.

00:02:36
So I knew, I knew I was different immediately as soon as. As soon as I, like, as soon as I knew I was my own person and like I was something different than everyone else. Like, I remember that moment of being like, oh, like I'm seeing things through my eyes and I'm a. And I'm a human. Like I'm my own thing and all these other people are these other things.

00:03:00
I knew, I knew that I was different. I just, I. You know, it's fine now, so. But I have, you know, being able to read, being able to see words, things like that are pretty much impossible for me from the get go. I have.

00:03:24
And. But it's all under control now. Anxiety. I remember having a conversation with my father and I was so little that I was standing on their bed and I was still like with my father, at my father's height, and I was saying to him, I was like, there's something wrong with me. I can't, like, I can't like, swallow food.

00:03:43
And it was just. It was just me being anxious, you know, like this. This anxious thing. I was like, I can't swallow food correctly. I get scared at stuff.

00:03:51
And my dad looked at me like, oh, I remember this, like the very vivid memory and just being like, my dad being like, I remember him saying, I want you to be okay. And then we hugged. And then it was sort of. That was it, you know what I mean? But.

00:04:08
But it was just this tiny little kid. I was really, really sensitive, just trying to say, there's something. There's something going on with me. And then, and then, you know, I also have the ADHD like crazy. So.

00:04:25
So I did okay in like middle school and things like that. And as soon as, like, you know, as soon as we had to read books and things like that, it was over for me. Like, I remember. I don't know if you guys remember, but when the teacher would be like, hey, guys, everyone read chapter one and put your books down when you're ready. And I would be on the second page, just sitting there and I would watch all of the.

00:04:54
Everyone, especially the smart kids, would go first. They put their book down, and I'd be like, your book's down already.

00:05:03
I'm on the second paragraph. And I've read it three times already. So that's when it sort of started. And if you remember, Juliet, like, it didn't exist. You got good grades and you were smart.

00:05:16
You got bad grades and you were done. You Know, and for, you know, for. For me, it was like, you just suck. Because my sister very suck. Your sister was so smart.

00:05:31
Super smart, really good at sports. She said, this is our jump ahead. We were talking the other day and she was like, oh, I was talking to my friend and she knows your band. And they were like, oh, my God, your brother's in Carbon Leaf. That's crazy.

00:05:50
Do you do music too? And she's like, no, no, I didn't get any of the music, Je. But I know how to read a book.

00:06:00
Right? So my sister was really smart and my parents are both really smart. They're both like, like, really educate, you know, did really well in school, you know, and that was the thing in my, in my house, it was like, you're not trying hard enough, you know, And I do. And I know you're going to laugh, but like every time you say you're not smart, like, it pings me because you are very smart. You just, you.

00:06:21
You just weren't. You weren't school smart. And that's what I always would say to Montgomery. I'd be like, you're smart. You're just not school SM smart, dude.

00:06:27
And it right life right now when you're in this world and all it is is like, are you smart? Because my daughter is a incredible student and the boy, like my middle son is a fine student and Montgomery was, you know, not a great student. And I remember in our household where we all kind of weren't like, Megan now is like, yeah, I just didn't suck as bad as you, so I didn't get any attention. It was like, you're fine, you're getting Cs. I.

00:06:49
She's like, I wasn't failing stuff like you and Elizabeth, but Jenna, you know, was a great student. And so it is that, that kind of thing, especially where we grew up. I mean, where we grew up was like, everyone was really good in school or you were the troublemaker, right? You came. You came from like the.

00:07:09
I don't know, I hate to say it, but the wrong side of the tracks. And you, you know, didn't have the in unit family, even though that we were all friends. But that was the kind of scenario. But to build, to know what you're saying to your dad at that young of an age, like, I couldn't swallow, you know, I get scared. That's not smart.

00:07:30
That's brilliant to be able to understand what those words at that. That, you know, at that age. So again, to me, this is not even a smart Knot. That is the absolute brilliance, because you've got people that are 20, 30, 40 years old that aren't able to articulate those words, and you were able to do that at 2 or 3 years old. So you're not smart.

00:07:52
You're brilliant. Thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, I definitely, you know, I'm 49 now, so. So at this point, I've.

00:08:01
I've settled in, and again, being a sensitive person is. Is a. Is a gift and a curse. Oh, yeah. But being able to feel everything.

00:08:11
And I've been. And I've been sober for. For forever at this point. And Brett, you know, once. Once you're.

00:08:18
Once you become sober, you have to face your demons. Your demons. Your demons show up. And. And being sober, you know, like, it helps you with the facing demons, but there's more of them.

00:08:31
You know what I mean? And. And after years of being sober, I. At least, you know, I'm a happy. I'm a happy man, you know, And.

00:08:38
And I have faced these demons, and I still do. Obviously, we all do, you know, But. But. But I am happy. And my parents, you know, my parents, they didn't.

00:08:51
You. They didn't not use any tools that they had. They use everything they knew. So. So to.

00:08:58
To in, you know, 1982 or whatever, to be like, okay, let's get you the testing that you need. It just didn't exist, you know? So it was like, all right, kid. Well, you know, we're doing everything. Everything we can, but how old were.

00:09:16
You when you did find out they're doing that testing? I wasn't. I was an adult. I was. I was well into.

00:09:23
I mean, this is. I had this. I had to. I had to go like, oh, that's what. You know, Because I don't.

00:09:30
Because I have. I have. I have step kids now, but I didn't have kids like. Like Juliet, like, you know, and Brent. You guys are like, all right, my kids are having these problems.

00:09:41
Yeah. Let's figure out what's what. And then you' that's me. Right? I did that.

00:09:46
Right? So I didn't. I didn't have that. So it was well into. When I was in college, I transferred to a college called Goddard College in Vermont, and it was progressive education.

00:10:00
And that's when, you know, like, towards the end, like, the Internet started, and you could. You could find out information and things like that. And I was like, oh, okay. Because I was surrounded. Anyone that.

00:10:11
That seeks out progressive education, it's not, you know, it's. It's A lot of, like, real, real life, like, talking to people to get stuff done. It's not the standardized testing and things like that. You had to go in front of a board and be like. And talk and be like, this is what I want to do.

00:10:29
This is how I'm going to accomplish it. And at the end of the semester, you go in, okay, this is what I did. This is what I learned. And. And all of that.

00:10:37
And that worked perfect for me. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, my God, I. I can do. I can do stuff, you know, Like, I can do these things. So it wasn't until I was.

00:10:47
I was an adult that I was like, oh, I get it. You know, like talking to other people and, you know, simple things, like going past an advertisement, and I'd be like, you're. You know, I would say, like, I would read it out loud and they would be like, that's not what that says. Cocaine, Jon. I thought the word was cocaine.

00:11:13
That happens to me all the time. Right? That's so. Oh, my God. That's so.

00:11:18
That's so crazy. I don't even, you know, half the time it happens so much that I don't even do it because I know I'm just gonna. It's gonna be wrong. So I don't even do it, right? Yeah, right.

00:11:27
No, it's. It is. And then right when it comes back, be like, oh, my God. Like, how many times have you read a text message and then been like, oh, my God? I go to Hahn.

00:11:35
I'm like, okay, this is what we need to do. This is what we need. And then I go back and I'm like, oh, honey, sorry. I totally read that wrong. Stop what you're doing.

00:11:42
We don't need to do any of what I just told you. I fucked that up. If I have to text my wife, if I have to text her. That restaurant gave me diarrhea. I can't.

00:11:52
I can't even get it close enough for autocorrect to take over. Oh, totally. I voice text everything. So I am my voice note and voice texter. And when I met him, he's like, you can't voice text.

00:12:05
And I was like, okay, I don't know how. We're going to communities. We talk on the phone. Let's be clarifying. When I stalked him.

00:12:11
When you're stalking me. I had a job, so she wanted to, you know, send me these novels. 15 Minute Voice. I'm like, I can't listen to them while I'm in my Meeting now. If you text them, I'll get through.

00:12:30
It might take a little longer, but I'm in the meeting. At least I can answer. So I'm like, I can't. I can't put that in. Like, even if I voice text it, it's going to.

00:12:38
It wrong. And then I can't pick up the wrong. You know where it's wrong. So it's really funny because I have people in my life that love my voice notes, and then I have people in my life that I cannot like. So I.

00:12:47
My kids won't listen to my voice notes. I mean, fair enough. And then my husband, he's like, please just call me. Like, I cannot listen to your voice notes. And I have two of my very close friends that will not listen to my voice notes.

00:12:58
Well, they're novels. They're not like one or two cents. Hey, can you. Can you grab. No, the kids.

00:13:05
Can you stop on the way home? Can you get some milk, bread done? No, no, no, no. So you're gonna take a left, then. I need you to take a left then.

00:13:11
Your little shirt needs to be tucked in over here. And then you're gonna flip over here. Then you're gonna do this. Then you go to the next door. I'm gonna run out of gas.

00:13:20
I need to go get. That's your. Those are your voice, though. Well, because it's usually when I have more things to say anyway, my. My stepdaughter calls those blogs.

00:13:29
She's like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna send you a blog. That's very cool. That's awesome. But.

00:13:35
So, Jon, did you. Have you ever found out in your family where that. You know, where it came from? No, no, it's. It's.

00:13:44
Wow. So. So I have no. No clue. If I look back at all of my.

00:13:51
My grandparents and all that, it's. I seem to. I seem to be kind of an anomaly as far as far as I can tell. So I'm not really sure. Right.

00:14:03
So it also. I don't. You know, I more try to, you know, just in my life, I celebrate all this stuff. I use. I generally use humor for all of my things.

00:14:22
So the way that I've dealt with it, because I didn't find out that about anything really, until I was like, well, an adult. And it's still sort of. I'm still figuring out stuff. During the pandemic, I was like, oh, my God. Like, I got.

00:14:41
Someone gave me a book called the Gift of Adult adhd. Because I would just be like, you Know, during the pandemic, we're all stuck inside and I'm like, okay, I'm going to clean my house and I'm downstairs and then I go upstairs to do one thing, and then I go downstairs, do one thing, and I go upstairs to do one thing and I'm like, oh my God, I got to, you know, I got a pie in the oven. Oh my God. You know, things like that. And so see, people are like, dude, adult adhd, man.

00:15:07
You know, it's like, it's so obvious. So I'm still like learning about stuff. So, so what I've, I've done, at least with in my situation is I've, I've sort of settled into my life, which I love, which is great. And these things that, like, the way, you know, the way I work and the way my brain works, it's got me to this point. Like, the way my brain works really hurts me when it comes to, you know, reading and things, like just the regular stuff.

00:15:37
But it helps me with being creative and it helps me with music so much. I can, I can see things. I'm a bass player and I can see things on my fretboard in a way that I don't. That I think makes me, you know, at the risk of sounding like a blowhard, but like, I think it, I think it makes me more of a unique. If you listen to me play, I play different than a lot of people play.

00:16:03
You know, you can listen to me sit down and play and go, oh, that's Jon. Whereas a lot of bass players, you can, you know, you're like, that could kind of be anybody. So I really celebrate it and I use, you know, humor and sort of, you know, self deprecating humor, which is fine for me. I like that.

00:16:26
I don't even know where I was going with my, with my thought. No, but with the, with the adult, like. So it's not like you haven't found where the hereditary thing is and it's not like you're looking and searching for that because it's like you've come to the terms with what you, where you are and where you've been and, and how it is. You know, you see, I mean, that's when I met Brent. I was, he called, you know, he calls me the Unicorn.

00:16:49
As you've listened to the podcast. Because I kind of did the same thing. I was like, I know what I'm good at and I know what I'm not good at and the things that I'm good at, I am actually really, really good at. I didn't also, like, it was athletics, right. And then I didn't realize until later.

00:17:02
I mean, really, the last number of years, like, how good I am at interviewing and connecting and doing that. But it, you know, it's. It's. It is an interesting journey as we go through and learning about ourselves and, you know, and some of these good and bad parts. Right.

00:17:19
It's like you kind of. Kind of. I see your smirk. He's got something to say. No, I just, you know, I didn't find out till I go September where mine came from.

00:17:32
So I just turned 48. So I'm right, You know, we're all. We're all in the same neck of woods here. Well, Juliet's 51, so. Oh, thanks.

00:17:39
Thank you. Yeah, yeah. You guys are still in your 40s. Yeah. Wait.

00:17:45
Wait until you get into your 50s. It's awesome. Let's. Let me just say that I know it wasn't always. I was a little.

00:17:51
I was like, oh, what's happening? Oh, yes, now it's awesome. Oh, now it's awesome. 51's awesome. So I didn't find out till, you know, September, you know, so I was, you know, just about, you know, 48 years old where mine came from.

00:18:06
And I was kind of like you. I'm like, I'm anomaly. I'm not fitting in. I'm not seeing the connection. And it just, you know, my.

00:18:16
My uncle's a jade artist and he ended up doing a piece for our Stanley cup dinner, which we had in October. And he's like, oh, you know, you know, happy to do it. You know, obviously, dyslexia runs in our family. I'm like, what? Yeah.

00:18:33
So it took me this long. I, you know, I thought, you know, I. I thought I, you know, still think I'm adopted. So nobody might. Nobody played hockey.

00:18:45
Nobody, you know, in my family. So it took me, you know, it took me that. That long. It doesn't. Doesn't change anything for, you know, for me.

00:18:54
But it was interesting that it took that long to figure out exactly where, you know, where it did or did come from, you know, can it skip a generation? Absolutely. Can it skip too you? Yeah, it can. That's the great thing about dyslexia.

00:19:09
It's. It's got a mind of his own. Right? I mean, and it's. Yeah.

00:19:14
Go ahead, Jon. I suspect that. That someone. Someone back maybe. Maybe in my grandparents, like, so.

00:19:22
So my parents seem to both. Both do very well. My sister did very well. In school and didn't seem. Doesn't.

00:19:31
They don't seem to suffer from the same things that I do. But if you go back to my grandparents, at least someone in there could have easily had something and no one would have ever talked about it. No one talks about it. That's the generation. It would have just been like, that's.

00:19:47
It's, it's just how it is. So it could exist and it's gone with history. Right. And my dad, I mean, my dad didn't find out really what the labels were until I was diagnosed in college. Even though my older sister Elizabeth, there was like diagnosis.

00:20:05
So I should say he knew that there was something, but there was no labels. Like, he wasn't like, okay, this is what I am. But we always knew. My mom would always say, oh, you guys like, learn like your dad, right? So it was like, okay, we learn different.

00:20:15
We have learning disabilities. But there was no label to it. I mean, I think Elizabeth, because she was more creative, that it was more like obvious with her dyslexia, I guess. And I was so much worse in math. So it was just like, oh, you're just dumb.

00:20:33
Right? Like, even though I struggled in the English part, I kind of cheated my. Way through girl math. That's all. Yeah, well, that's what they used to say.

00:20:40
They'd be like, oh, you're just a girl. And like, you know, and now I know I'm just calculating you. Right? Like, it was like, hello. There was something like, I just couldn't learn the way you were teaching.

00:20:48
But I remember my dad in college. So I was first diagnosed with adhd. And I read Driven to Distraction and I remember being like. And it was Dr. Hallwell and Dr.

00:20:57
Ratley and I will never forget them because they're both like Harvard trained doctors who also are dyslexic and adhd. And they. This book was so impressive. You remember the name in the book? No, because it was, it was life changing.

00:21:10
It was so. It was so, like uplifting, but even. And Jon, you'll know. Remember the Menar 6? Yeah.

00:21:20
So. And I forget the girl that I went to school with, but I remember sitting in college and you're trying to drop out a thousand times and just being like, like, I cannot do this. And a, like an infomercial with Dr. Markel came on talking about ADHD. And I called my mom and I was like, I think I'm adhd.

00:21:36
And she's like, oh, yes, honey, you are. And I was like, okay, well, I can't do college mom, like, you knew this. She's like, well, we never wanted to medicate you. That's when I actually went on meds and then became really good in school, but then also realized all my other, you know, all the other struggles. And then when Montgomery, you know, we diagnosed him, it was like, okay, now you have more stuff.

00:21:54
But there was always, like, knowledge of, like, okay. David was really good in school. But then when I got diagnosed with adhd, my whole family was like, oh, I think we all are. And I think everyone tried meds. It was actually like a.

00:22:05
Kind of a funny. Megan didn't, but like, my dad did, my brother did. And it was like this. This kind of. Well, if you can all of a sudden do really good in school, what is this?

00:22:13
Like, we all need to do this, right? Like, yeah, it was this really crazy transformation that we don't know, though, from my dad where, and we suspect it. I think it probably was my grandmother, but, like, who knows, right? It's like one of those things that. Especially a woman back in those days, like, she was a model, and that was all we really knew.

00:22:35
Like, she wasn't, you know, she didn't do any business. And that was kind of it. And that was, you know. Yeah. What's.

00:22:42
What's. It's so. It's so crazy. I mean, you'd think we're talking about 19, 25, and we're. We're talking.

00:22:50
And we're talking about the 90s, which is not that long ago. And, you know, I think again, like, I'm. I'm really. I have a really great life. I'm really happy.

00:23:04
I'm a happy person. So. So when it comes to it, you know, it's like, what happened, happened again. Nobody was sitting there going, I know what Jon's struggling from, but fuck him. You know what I mean?

00:23:18
No one did that, right? So I don't hold. I'm not sad about any of it. I don't hold any grudges on anything or anyone, but it is pretty crazy. Like, I was in school, I had a teacher call me a functional illiterate.

00:23:38
You know what I mean? My parents. My parents did not know what to do with me. They. They gave me.

00:23:45
I was grounded. So in my. In my family, getting good, good grades was the thing. I mean, that was the thing you had to do. And I.

00:23:54
As soon as we started getting grades, I started getting bad grades and my parents got me tutors. That didn't help. They. They tried to. I remember I had this tutor that would come over the house once a week for an entire semester, and he would go over everything with me, and I'd be like, okay, I got it.

00:24:12
You know, I'm gonna do it. And then I would just. Then I just still. Still did terribly. You know, I was grounded for.

00:24:21
For more than an entire. So this was my longest streak. I was grounded other times, too, but I was grounded. My longest streak was more. It was 13 months.

00:24:32
I was grounded. I was grounded for an entire calendar school year. For an entire school year. Then the summer and then the beginning of the next school year. So I was allowed to leave the house.

00:24:46
I was allowed to go to school and then do sports practice afterwards. Then I had to come straight home. So I was not allowed to hang out with any of my friends for an entire year. I was not allowed to go, go anywhere, do anything. I had to sit at home and just stare at a wall or something.

00:25:07
And TV was limited, too, so they took away. They took away the Cosby show from me. Show. So I saw. I.

00:25:15
I heard. Not saw an entire Cosby show because my parents would. My family, my sister would sit and watch the Cosby show, and I wasn't allowed to. So I would sit at the top of the steps and listen to the Cosby show. And I'd be.

00:25:29
I bet that looks awesome. Sounds funny. What's Rudy doing?

00:25:37
So I did that all through high school. I repeated my senior year of high school at a boarding school. At a boarding school. I did it like a post grad year. So I was a senior again at a school where you went to school.

00:25:52
Because I was like, we just thought maybe, you know, maybe he's just not mature enough. Yeah, whatever. And. And I was like. Like the.

00:26:03
Like, I had so much ridiculous stuff going on. I mean, I was. I'm a happy man because I was such a sad little boy. Like, I was so sad. Like, every day was so sad, which is.

00:26:16
Which is kind of funny and fine at this point, right? But I. But I wasn't allowed to do anything or hang out with my friends and stuff for. For so long. That was just like, wow.

00:26:28
Every minute was just, like, miserable. So. So I repeated my senior year of school at a boarding school where we had to wear suits, which was. I was just like, I have to wear a suit. This sucks so much.

00:26:41
I went to school on Saturday and. And did a little better, but not good. You know, the. The. And.

00:26:52
And then got to. Got to college. My first semester of college, my GPA was a 0.95. I didn't. I didn't even break one, which was so insane.

00:27:09
And then finally, like, went to this college that was. That was progressive education, because I. I just. I randomly found out about it. Like, it was the most random thing, this band Fish.

00:27:24
The band Fish. Yeah, they went. They went there, and I really liked Fish at the time. Yeah. And so.

00:27:29
So I heard about this college that they went to because it was kind of like, lore, and I. And I did research on it, and I looked it up, and I was like, this might be. This might be good for, you know, this might be the best thing for me. Like, this. I don't have to, you know, do book reports.

00:27:45
I don't have to write these papers that I can't do. And then I found that. And that. That was the thing that changed my life, you know, because it was just like. It was like the island of Misfit toys, where all of a sudden, I was surrounded by all these people.

00:28:00
And everyone was, you know, everyone was super open about, like, you know, their pro. Everyone was. Was studying their own problems, you know, like, everyone's. Everyone's senior thesis was about, like, whatever they were going through kind of thing, you know? But I was surrounded.

00:28:15
I was surrounded by people who were like, hey, let's talk about all this stuff. So. Which is great, but. So I am so curious when. Because, I mean, I do remember.

00:28:25
Were you a summer birthday, too? Weren't you young? No, no, No, I wasn't. Okay. You weren't one of those December birthdays?

00:28:32
Oh, you were December. Okay. Middle of the road. Oh, so are you a Capricorn, too? Sagittarius.

00:28:37
Oh, you're Sagittarius. Oh, sorry. We're Capricorn. Sorry. Happy belated birthday.

00:28:41
Yeah, happy belated. All three of us are all together. Yeah, I know, right? But when did you find, like, music? I would love to know that journey.

00:28:51
So I. I tried out Brian. Oh, what's his last name? He changed it on Facebook, so I can't remember. Brian Defelski.

00:29:04
Okay. And Hunter Hendrickson. Well, Hunter was my best friend. Yeah. Best friend.

00:29:10
Like, haven't we've been friends since we were babies? He was in the. He was. He was in the Philadelphia Boys Choir. And.

00:29:18
And my. And I. Me and Brian Defelsky tried out for the Philadelphia Boys Choir. We went over Brian Defelsky's house, and the leader of the Philadelphia Boys Choir played notes on a piano and said, sing these. And then I was like, I think I did it.

00:29:33
I think I did good. And I'm not A natural singer. I have found out later in life. And I didn't get in, and Brian Defelsky did get in. So when I found out that Brian got in, I cried and cried and cried and cried.

00:29:50
And my mom was like, well, why don't we get you drum lessons? So I actually took drum lessons from maybe third grade until. Until senior year of high school. And I was in. I don't know if you remember, I was in the marching band.

00:30:05
I don't, because, I mean, so that's the thing. Like, it's so. It's like an interesting. We were just recently talking about high school the other day, like, in groups and like in different areas. And like in Morristown, when you were a girl athlete, you were popular.

00:30:20
So we were talking to this other girl and she's like, no, the athlete girl athletes were not popular. She grew up in the Midwest. She's like, the girl athletes were not popular. They were like, like, kind of bold, dikey, whatever. And I was like, no, no, all our girls.

00:30:32
And then anyone that was band in our grade, go ahead. You were also. You and your sister were also super hot. I mean, that doesn't hurt. That does not hurt the popularity.

00:30:47
So the will the Williams, the Williams family, some of the best looking people you've ever seen in your life. I mean, obviously, you know, still gorgeous, but I mean, the entire family. You should use Brent. I'm telling you, he's met David. He's met David.

00:31:05
David came down to the cup dinner. So. Yeah, they're actually working on a really cool project, but may. But I'm saying I'll see him after this. Yeah.

00:31:14
Oh, that's right. At one. Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah, but yeah, that did.

00:31:19
That didn't hurt. I had to throw that out. Okay. But thank you. That's not what I was.

00:31:24
And by the way, Megan, since the day she would, like, was born, was gorgeous. I. And we always laugh. I went through, like, awkward stages. Like, And I'm not saying but anything.

00:31:33
I definitely. Megan was like, there was never a time I was like, okay, I took all of your fucking awkward stages. She was always like this perfect little bow. Yeah, she was. She had superpowers.

00:31:44
Superpowers. And she still does call it a perfect little bow. She was. No, she was like, little, like, literally. Brent.

00:31:51
There was not. Like, her hair was always perfect. She. I mean, you talk about it later. I mean, people.

00:31:55
That's what people. She would get really pissed because she'd be like, I'm not just pretty. Like, I'm. I can fucking do sports. And then she would be like a monster on the field.

00:32:03
And people were like. Like, oh, my God. Where I was always, like, a little bigger than her. And like, I was like a bull in the china shop. She was like, more delicate.

00:32:10
I was like. I said. And, you know, she didn't. Now she does a little bit, but not as much. Like, it was definitely.

00:32:16
Not every other word. No, not every word. And probably not like, now that she's even down south, she's like, God, every time I'm around you, you just. The F bomb. And.

00:32:24
But I was always like that. I kind of was more like the loud. She was more dainty. Right. I mean, Jon, you would say that, right?

00:32:30
Yeah, I mean, I guess Juliet, but, like, you know, no one wants to be like, yeah, I was so freaking hot, you know? You know. You know, it's really funny, Brett. This is like, we are obviously three. Three people with a couple of the.

00:32:44
What do you call them? The five D's. Yes. Our conversations.

00:32:51
But one of the things you said when. When Juliet was like, yeah, I'm gonna bring in. Bring in one of my friends. I don't think you were talking about me, but. But you're like, in the new year, I have one of my friends from high school coming in, and Brent's like, oh, would you.

00:33:05
Would you hook up with him? Or whatever? And I, you know, the fireman and. I did not hook up with him. Yeah, because I thought.

00:33:15
I thought maybe. Because I didn't know you were bringing other people from high school, so I thought maybe you were talking about me. Of course. See, everything's about me in my world. But I.

00:33:24
And I laughed so hard because the idea of what and who I was in high school and what and who you were in high school, there's not enough room in this screen. I don't think that's. Of course. You don't think that. You know, no one wants to be like, yeah, I was.

00:33:43
I was like the super hot chick. I was Hot chicks are always like. And hot guys, too. Oh, I was so awkward. I was such a nerd.

00:33:51
No, I was not awkward and I was not nerdy. But I don't. That's very. That's. Thank you.

00:33:56
I'm like, totally blushing. But no, I did not. I mean, Morrison had a lot of very good looking people. I mean, they're. Sure.

00:34:03
Absolutely. And. And again, your sister Megan, like, literally a superpower. I mean, just from day one. I mean, prom king and queen, like, they were.

00:34:13
Yeah. Like. Yeah, yeah. That's. Does that Exist.

00:34:16
Prom king and queen. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Her. Her sister and brother in law were.

00:34:21
Yeah. Megan and Jon were probably homecoming queen. Yeah. And I wasn't like, I wasn't even. Not like, it wasn't like I was Hahna Hughes, like in my grade, but in Would like was a joke because I always dated the older.

00:34:31
I always dated the older boys. We don't need to go into any of that. I didn't take people my age. But so. But it is like, it is so my whole thing going back to the marching band.

00:34:42
I did not realize you were in the marching band, because marching band and I mean, generally are dorks. And I did not think that you were a dork. I mean, but now the music. See, the thing is, that is one of the things with music. I.

00:34:56
I wish that I did more. I mean, I'm awful with music, but I do wish that there was more times that that was brought in because I was just like the athlete, right. That was like what I was good at. Stay in your lane, don't do anything else kind of thing. Sure.

00:35:10
Well, the music for me, I always had an interest because I. Cause I took drum lessons, right. Which is amazing. And I played drums all the time. And then when I got to college, my best friend was like, you should learn to play guitar.

00:35:29
And he bought me like a cheap acoustic guitar. And I picked it up and I started. I loved it. I mean, I still remember the feeling of just like strumming an open G chord and just going. And I just.

00:35:45
I loved it so much. I really can't explain the feeling. I was just like, oh, my God, this is amazing. And then when I went to Goddard. Goddard, what they do in progressive education and what they're good at is.

00:35:58
Is being like, oh, you like this Chase this you have. And they go. It's more like, here's the ball. You run with it, you know, and if you don't. If you don't run with it, you don't get anything out of it.

00:36:12
So it's a really. Like. You get exactly what you put into it. And I just. I found a place in Montpelier, Vermont, that.

00:36:20
That would rent to own upright basses. And then I bought an electric base. And that was it for me. All I did was I hit one note and I knew it right there. Like, I knew.

00:36:33
I was like, this is all I want to do. And for. I was only there for three years because I had a couple of credits from my disaster at our science college. And so I was there for three years and That's. That's all I did.

00:36:48
I mean, all I did was play because I was so in love with it and I was so obsessed with it. And so in music school, they sort of give you. They give you, like, 10 years of information in three years or four years, and they go, all right, go out in the world and try to, you know, try to figure it out. And. And I immediately moved to Seattle, which is where Hunter.

00:37:12
Hunter lived. And there was a great scene. Still to this day, like, the best musicians I've ever known. And I still keep in contact with all of them and play with all of them. I actually just played.

00:37:26
My buddy Ty, who played in Katy Perry's band for five years, plays with Mitsky, Joss Stone's musical director. This guy. These were my friends. They're the best musicians, the most creative people in the world. The grunge scenes.

00:37:42
Yeah, and when I got there, it was the jazz scene. It was. It was the grunge. The grunge was like. Was just not.

00:37:50
Because it was 2000 when I moved there, grunge was obviously like, you'd still, you know, you'd. You know, you'd run into Mike McCready at the boxing gym, or like, Dave Matthews lived there at the time, and, you know, you'd run into these guys. But it was the scene at the time when I moved there was like, this new school jazz, like, funky kind of jazz. And. And.

00:38:13
And I would just. I just was like, okay, this is. This is. This is all I'm doing. And I had a job for, like, three months.

00:38:21
I was the worst employee that they ever had because I had to sit in front of you guys. I had to sit in front of a computer. I got a data entry job because this was the dot com. This was the dot, right? This was the dot com.

00:38:34
Boom. And so they were just giving out these jobs that paid really well. And you would sit in front of this computer and do a data entry. And I learned when I got fired that they. They obviously, I didn't even think.

00:38:47
It didn't even occur to me that they'd be tracking my progress. I was just like, they're probably just trusting that I'm doing an awesome job. And I would sit in front of this computer for. For five, ten minutes, and I'd be like, I gotta go outside and scoot. You know, they had, like, these razor scooters.

00:39:03
I would scooter around the block and be like, okay, let me see if I can do, like, one thing right? So I would. Was. I Was. So I got fired.

00:39:11
How long are you in Seattle for? Almost 10 years. Yeah, I played in Vancouver. Right. So that's exact.

00:39:16
The timeframe that I was in Vancouver. Oh, really? Yeah, I. 1998, when I started playing for the Vancouver Canucks. So.

00:39:25
Yeah, I know that area pretty well. Nice. Yeah, I loved it there at the. Especially at the time. It's way different now because I go back there, we play there.

00:39:36
We play. I don't know if you know these places. The triple door, which is underneath the Wild Ginger downtown, and then the crocodile, we. We play there, which is also downtown, so. So we play there all the time.

00:39:50
It's. It's way different than when. When we were there, you know, it was. It was the coolest when we were there, for sure. Yeah.

00:39:57
Because you were there, right? Yeah, Yeah, I didn't do much. I think the professional hockey player who won a Stanley cup is probably a cooler. Won that Stanley cup yet. That was my early 20s, so we.

00:40:11
Go up to early 20s. Your fun time? Well, actually earlier than that. So junior hockey. There was a team in Seattle.

00:40:18
Seattle Thunderbirds. That's where I got my first fake ID when I. 16. So started rolling in the bars at 16 in Chinatown. 10 bucks for.

00:40:29
For my fake ID. She brings some fond memories. Yeah. You could see her smile. You know, my.

00:40:40
My picture. You know, I just, you know, have my own. My own address. Oh, yeah. Start rolling the bars at 16.

00:40:45
It was perfect. 16, right? Well, you definitely trouble. No, come on. What do you mean trouble?

00:40:55
Yeah, there's no trouble. It's perfect at 16. I mean. Yeah. I mean, that's so interesting.

00:41:02
I love that you guys both have that. That memories of that area. I mean, it. And it is the Space Needle. Yeah.

00:41:12
We would do. My friend Hunter and I and all of our friends would do the night before New Year's Eve. We always had dinner at the restaurant at the top of the space. You know, the rotating restaurant. Yeah, rotating.

00:41:26
The elevators were all glass. I almost have a heart attack every time you get squished in there in this glass elevator. Legitimately scary. Yeah. And there's a little theme park, a little roller coaster underneath it.

00:41:39
Yep. Yeah, the. The Seattle center down there. Yeah. Super fun.

00:41:44
And Hunter's still there, right? Does he still live in that. He still lives in that area. So just to bring in context. So there was.

00:41:52
There was when we swam at Sunnybrook. So it was like the summer swimming club and Jon Hunter, my sister Megan. And was it Brian Murray. Brian Murray and Jared. And then they had like this four and they were.

00:42:10
I think you guys won. Didn't you win or come in second or whatever in Tri county and, and all. Juliet. We never came in second. You always came in first.

00:42:19
Yeah. Yeah. You guys were like, yes, I'm sorry. Right. But I was like, I think that you definitely.

00:42:25
I mean, they were so good. And they were these like. I mean, it was when you were five and under and then, I mean, I think you guys. That relay won until you were. Guys were older until.

00:42:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we had, we had, we had club records until like maybe, maybe four or five years ago. Yeah. Wow. Right. And it's crazy.

00:42:45
And my sister. Club records and swimming, you know, fashion get to the bottom. Yeah, he hates swimming. He does not swim.

00:42:55
But so. And he's. So. He's still very good friends with one of the kids that was like in there in their group, which is, which, I mean, just also says about where we grew up. Like, I still have so many of the girls that I grew up with that I'm still really good friends with.

00:43:09
You know, it's, it's. It was a really special town. So. Jon Brent knows Hahnielle Filler, now Fetty, who was a year, you know, was a year shoot. Who dated Brian Murray, which we were just talking about because I just was with her in California.

00:43:24
But it is, it's such an interesting, like, talking about the more you talk about, like, do you have anyone in your world that is also dyslexic that like, you connect with and all of a sudden, like, when you're telling stories or is it. Is it kind of like, it doesn't really come up? Yeah, I, you know, I keep, I keep all this. I keep a lot of my stuff close to the vest, you know, I think, you know, that being said, I think it's amazing. I think it's really cool that you guys were like, we wanna, we wanna, we wanna do this.

00:43:59
Outwardly, I, I think it's really cool that people do that. And I think it's. I think it's awesome what you guys are doing. And, and especially, you know, I think it's important because I think people don't. People don't understand the struggle because it's.

00:44:15
Because it's invisible. You know, like the, the story that Brent told about, like, talking to like, people at his daughter's school, and they were just kind of like. They were just kind of like, well, whatever, you know, and he was like, you're gonna get punched in the face. I related to that. That was great.

00:44:32
So I think it's really cool what you guys do. And I think it's important for people to. To do this. Outwardly, I really keep everything even. Like, my sobriety.

00:44:42
Like, people can know me for years, and they'll be like, hey, have a beer. And I'm like, I haven't had a beer in 20 years. You know? And they'll be like, what? You drink all the time with me?

00:44:52
And I'm like, no, I don't.

00:44:56
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's. And it's just like, I. That's.

00:45:01
That's just the way I like to do it, you know, it's not. You know, so. So I really keep all this stuff, like, really close to my. To my vest. I.

00:45:09
I don't. I don't play my cards a ton. I have no secrets. I mean, I. I'm happy to talk to all this stuff about.

00:45:16
If people want to talk about stuff. I'm happy. I'll share anything. I'm not ashamed of any of it. But.

00:45:24
But, yeah, it doesn't really. It doesn't really come up that much. And especially because, you know, because I am like a professional musician, you know, nobody goes, like, you know, nobody gives me something to read, and then I'm there 20 minutes later going like, oh, God. You know, right. That.

00:45:44
It doesn't. It doesn't rear its ugly head all that often. So. So, yeah. So.

00:45:50
Which is great. Which is nice. It's nice for me. Yeah, that's. That's.

00:45:54
That's for sure. I mean, that is nice. And as you said earlier, like, the fact that we're talking about this, and we were, you know, talking about when we went to school, I mean, bringing it back to word blindness, the name that. That was, you know, in. In the early 1900s, right.

00:46:10
The late 1800s, they knew about dyslexia. And we still are where we are without real. I mean, yes, it's talked about. Okay, you can have this reading. I.

00:46:21
Actually, Brett, and I haven't told you. I was talking to my mom, and she was saying, it's so interesting, this whole fight now with the, you know, all the reading things. And. And she goes. It's like, what we did 20 years ago.

00:46:32
This is exactly what we were fighting about 20 years ago or however many years. And I'm. Don't. Don't quote me on the time. But she's like, it's.

00:46:39
It. As I'm reading the article, she's like, I literally am stopping and being, like, done. That. Did. Like, we've already done this.

00:46:46
Like, what. Why are we fighting about this still. Like, we know what needs to be done. It's not that hard. Yeah.

00:46:52
You know, I notice. You know, I notice people being like. And I do this. I do this with other people, with other things where there's a balance there. There's a saying that I like that is, it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility.

00:47:14
Right? So like I said, I can't spell restaurant. You know, I just can't do it. I can't even get it close enough for autocorrect. If I really wanted to, I could sit down and go, all right, man, this is harder for you than maybe anyone else, but every day you need to get up and you need to spell restaurant, and in a week or two, I could have restaurant down.

00:47:38
I could. I could. I could do it if I wanted to, and I haven't done it. You know what I mean? So I think that.

00:47:44
That there is. There's this balance in there, and this is. You know, I don't. I don't know how to say it, but. No, I know what you're saying.

00:47:52
Yeah. Part of. Part of. Part of what was good for me about. About having all this anxiety and all this dyslexia and all this ADHD and all of these things, and no.

00:48:05
No one really knowing what to do with me. It was up to me. It. It was like, this is your thing, man. And I had.

00:48:12
I had a bunch. When I was getting sober, I had a bunch of years in there where I was having crippling panic attacks multiple times a day. Anytime I was in public, I would sit there and just like, I'm going to my pants, and I'm gonna throw up because I'm so, so anxious, but I had to white knuckle it. And if I. You know, I'm not saying this.

00:48:33
This for anyone else but me, but, like, because I had to white knuckle it for all these years, I'm in a really good place with it. I really put in the work, and I. And I really worked hard at being like, what is this? I need to figure out how to deal with this, and I need to figure out this. This thing.

00:48:51
So there is a little bit of accountability that. That. That has to be. That has to be taken. Right?

00:48:58
So there's a balance in the. In there somewhere. And, God, again, I got. I lost. Sort of lost my train of thought.

00:49:07
No, but I hear what you're saying. Like, it's. It is. There is as much as. And that's where it's kind of hard though.

00:49:12
And I think what you're saying is as each person. Right. And I mean, and that's the thing with the foundation and Brenton, if you want to jump in. But like, with the foundation, that's one of the reasons why Brent started it is so, like, he can give those people the tools. So, yes, you can white knuck it, but you know what?

00:49:28
You can white knuckle it with someone being there. Because all of us, if you think about all of us have our traumas we've all gone through, we've come out on the other side, you know, for the most part. But there's. There's some people that don't. Right.

00:49:41
That take their lives because they can't do it, because it's just like. Right. And it's. Yeah. And I would.

00:49:47
I would never recommend white knuckling it for anyone. Totally. No, you said for your. You said for yourself. Yes, 100.

00:49:53
I got what you were saying. And I think my point was that I think it's for people that don't struggle with things, it's easy for them to be like, you could do this if you wanted to. Because there is a little bit of that where it's like, I could do this if I wanted to, but it's like, it's harder for me, so I'm not going to do it, or whatever. So there's a little bit of that. So I think that's where it comes from with people being like, well, sorry, Brent, your daughter just needs to work harder, you know, which is.

00:50:25
Which is. Which is awful. But. But I don't think they, you know, I think people don't. They don't know what they don't know.

00:50:32
You know what I mean? And so. So they see it the way they're gonna see it, you know, so it's just like, just do it. Right? And that's why knowledge is power.

00:50:39
Right? Knowledge is power. And that's why I stalked him for the podcast. And finally admitting it, I just say that and I laugh in my head because whatever. So it is like what he's been doing with the foundation is kind of building that right behind the scenes to be able to say to kids and parents, right?

00:51:03
Like, I know we've had to white knuckle it, or we've had to do this, or we've had to take accountability, but let's try to make it a little less, because not everyone is as strong, right? Not everyone's built the same, and not everyone can do it. So. And. And it's important.

00:51:17
Yeah. Let's, let's give people the tools so that they can be accountable. Understanding you can't. If you don't have, if you don't have any understanding, you're not gonna have any tools. They come.

00:51:27
Yeah. They come hand in hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And for, for, for every person that was, that was able to white knuckle it, there's probably way more people that were like, well, I'm just gonna give up. You know what I mean?

00:51:40
Because, because it's just like I'm drowning, I'm drowning here. So, so let's just, let's just stop. There is, you know, very, very few ever get on the other side of white knuckling. Yeah, yeah, that again, that goes back to Jon telling one, how strong you are and two, and how really smart you are. You're brilliant.

00:52:00
To build, to articulate those words to your dad at that young of an age. You know, I, I know people that have a hard time who is married with kids that articulate those words in their adulthood. So be proud of, you know, what you are, who you are. Could you stand on a pedestal. Of.

00:52:21
Being strong, of being brilliant in your own way? Thank you. I appreciate that a ton. And I want to say also, you know, shout out to your family because even though they were hard on you at times, I feel like you have. To be a show.

00:52:36
Without you, that's bullshit. But I feel like, and also you have friends. Friends. You've had support where, and, and maybe even though you white knuckled it, you know, and I'm not putting words in your mouth, you white knuckled it behind the scenes. But you, you know, you are a loved person that has people absolutely.

00:52:54
My, my, my parents and my sister and, and her family are the best people. I mean, they really are great. You know, I, I, I don't, you know, every, everyone including me, and I wasn't an awesome kid to be around, around, you know, so, so every, everyone has their, their role to play. Everyone's. My family's awesome.

00:53:14
I love my family. I, I talk to my parents a couple days a week on the phone. I talk to my sister all the time. So, so, yeah, right. And I mean, I do have that, those memories.

00:53:23
I mean, your parents definitely were good, good people. And same, same with your sister. But guys, where you guys got all your speedos? Do you guys keep your collection of speedos? I still have.

00:53:33
I still have. I'm sure you do. I do. You know, I've done triathlons or whatever, you know, just like These little sprint triathlons. So I still swim from time to time.

00:53:47
And, Brett, I'm telling you, if you ever want a swim lesson, I can help you. I can absolutely help you. He's a really, really good swimmer. I do not have any speedos anymore. And the swim things, I gave up swimming.

00:54:01
I think in high school, freshman year, I was like this because I used to cheat. I used to go under the lanes. Actually, your sister and my sister. Older sister used to get. So how do you cheat in swimming?

00:54:10
How do you mean? Go under the lanes. You got to go straight forward and back. No, I would go and then go and then cut the line. Oh, I know how to cut lines.

00:54:16
I used to do it in field hockey. Yeah, I know. I remember that. That's one of the things you can do. You can hide underneath, not go all the way.

00:54:23
In practice, at least. Yeah. You can't do it in the competition. Yeah. That's why I'm trying to figure out this.

00:54:28
What do you mean? Yeah, it's just. It's just like. Yeah, yeah. It's just like cross country being like, well, if we cut over here, cuts out a mile, it's.

00:54:36
Oh, yeah. I don't need to beat anyone. No. Just so I didn't have to, like, because that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:43
That's a whole nother story. But, Jon, I mean, seriously, thank you. And it's so good to see your face. I mean, you guys, so excited to see you and just kind of reminisce and. And thank you for sharing because, again, it helps when people can hear other people's stories.

00:54:59
I mean, stories connect us. I say it all the time. And we appreciate you joining. Word blindness, dyslexia, exposed. You guys know what to do, like rate, review, and share.

00:55:09
Because you don't know who needs to hear this. You don't know who has had a similar experience or knows someone that needs some inspiration in their life. So don't forget to rate and share.